Airline Pilot Guy – Aviation Podcast Episode 406

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show starts around 10:30 time mark.

you realize it's ten days since I lost sure yeah it's been a while alright so as we are on the air is Liz gonna be producer tonight she is out running some errands related to her closing of her her property yeah and she should be joining us sometime after now okay so that's good yeah she won't be gone for the entire thing so hello everyone welcome to the airline pilot Guy show live taping well we actually aren't using tape live oh I am as you are okay yeah I'm using reel-to-reel vacuum tubes and reel-to-reel yeah that's good alright and as you can see it's just Oh look speaking of the the knowledgeable I am this is just shown up in the in the green room and we see her and so that's good she'll be here to kind of try to keep us under control she'll have a hard job yeah that's true not unless you give her the off button but she has all of the co-hosts by the way have full control of my panel here so I guess I could blame if something goes wrong on other people you could try yeah okay let's see and Dana and his first officer and Steph will be joining us at a later time whenever they can get into their studios and what else do we want to say before we start recording I am actually recording by the way I'll just turn I'll just turn myself on I can do it on the trade you should take your video turn your video off then I'm on family show where is that it's right here a family show ladies and gentlemen family show I should probably turn the volume off of the TV can you hear the the fire crackling it was I put my headphones on and went over well fire let's see where is nope nope I just turn the TV off good job it's not muting Jeffery it's a good job you don't have very many buttons in that lanta that is true I have more mutton and muttons more buttons in my mad-dogged and I do that in modern airplanes now you get those big brass levers and taps and things Danya right yeah that's exactly what it looks like inside oh come on what have I done oh you kid them okay well done sir is that where you're stealing your fire from yeah I'm not stealing and I'm borrowing it that's okay it's YouTube right oh that's not the one it's the wrong one it's way too big of a fire well this is embarrassing well if I yuan tried find some New Year's Eve fireworks and put those on instead not that dear though yeah we don't wanna listen to music anyway son of again how about like the ones I just recently played no of course they don't have thing about that hope everybody's enjoying us yeah we're having a ball thing a JIT NIF Nevel suggesting you just pick a xxx Channel and may have done that's what I'm afraid of okay all my browsing exactly ah there you go you've kind of sparked the illusion we all actually assumed it was your fireplace uh-huh uh-huh yeah we did yeah right okay here we go okay a Franks really enjoying the show so far below good Thank You Franco so we can always count on you all right what do you have on there for Oh sick although sick so bad badly altered five pick me please okay all right here we go episode four zero six in three two one well the video was synced perfectly I we couldn't have got a better platform move meant if you pardon the expression thanks for noticing yes it's always important to have a good clapper movement yep they say okay hello everyone in the chat room as you mentioned goober Frank Ethan Allen James Mac David Ogden in Houston I'm guessing mouth Michael Coe Who am I missing here Robert Hoffman Tanya who I'll whom I'll be seeing or who all be saying I always get confused with that in about a week and a half right Gustav Adam and more Armando hello I'm Armando and I guess I heard you say Nev's in there yep James got Tania and Robert is Hamish ah Bob take a guy's dick yeah Danza main man my cat tiny I've said that Mike Laura Dannon Jim Van Ram Oh Tim band Ram of the famous van Ram brothers did they invent the ramjet no the not quite so successful van Ram well yeah we bit silly of them to put it in a van they should have stuck it in an airplane well you know you have you met them in person they're not the private no I'm just kidding I'm just kidding Tim and Mark appear there ha ha ha I just okay um let me make sure we have all our nobs positioned properly oh speaking of that I'm wearing a airplane geeks shirt that was very good from the host of that fine podcast no one sent me a t-shirt for a while so I'm logo les he was in The Lord of the Rings logo LS a logo lesson yes so uh so yeah if you want if you want mention of your your production your podcast your whatever just send it send it to a neck he he's a he's a living billboard absolutely yes and look what I have my once again my mm-hmm Acme mug with coffee first this is the type of product I will happily endorse all day every day who sent me a few of those it doesn't have to be that particular one but as long as it's bottled and be a proper job proper job job okay um let's see we've done that and let me do a sound check on the intro from our good friend and professional radio broadcaster Roger radio Roger stern the view from our side of the cockpit door airline pilot guy episode 406 that's on okay yep okay ready um gonna hit that clock and start the show the view from our side of the cockpit door airline pilot guy episode 406 pilot I show the view from our side of the cockpit door with your own captain chat broadcasting live from Studio 1a Nate BG headquarters in Roswell Georgia a show is recorded on the 30th of December episode the crew of an AirAsia flight didn't follow proper procedures when their engine started failing an American Airlines mechanic leads guilty to tampering with an aircraft more news your feedback and another edition of plane tears so get all settled in tray tables and seat backs in the upright and locked positions electronic device is powered on I'm radio watcher and flight 406 is ready for pushback thank you radio Roger stern he's an Emmy award-winning TV and radio reporter currently at the number one all news station in the nation 1010 wins in New York City welcome to the airline pilot guests show it's an aviation podcast and then I've been doing this for about ten years now a little over that covering the latest aviation news answering your feedback and I'm captain Jeff former US Air Force pilot and currently a captain for a major legacy airline based in Atlanta Georgia which I like to refer to as Acme Airlines and here to help me in the endeavor is my co-host who is in the English countryside professional photographer former RAF our double AF fighter pilot current captain for a major US no that's not true I looked away yeah and I started reading that's alright I'm sure people understand yeah let's try that again and joining me is from his studio in the English countryside professional photographer farmer or farmer until he was a farmer a former RAF RAF fighter pilot former captain for an international airline based in London it's captain Nick who are I may not be clever but he can drive my tractor that's good said farmer Giles lovely to be with you Jeff and this small crew version I think where we're working our way down to one pilot operations is Yakima be the case soon oh I don't know you never know it could come full circle right good or you know what I'll be doing the show by myself again Oh anyway we do plan on our other co-hosts joining us later on in today's broadcast so hang in there if you don't mind but in the meantime while we wait for them to join us let's get started right away with today's news stand five on you from the 80s BGA use of the Australian Transportation Safety Board the flight crew of an AirAsia X Airbus a330 did not follow proper procedures when faced with an engine oil pressure warning attempting to restart the affected engine even after it had failed as well as electing to divert to Melbourne when the aircraft was considerably closer to two other airports the engine oil pressure warning and subsequent engine failure occurred during a 16 August 2016 scheduled flight from Sydney to kuala lumpur with two flight crew eight cabin crew and 234 passengers on board while in crews near Alice Springs which I believe if you can correct me if I'm wrong and Nick that's over there on the the western coast of the continent Alice Springs is just about plumb Center Oh in the centre okay they're slapping more or less yes but that's a big it's a big continent so that's quite some time to go I guess yeah the flight crew received an engine to oil low pressure failure alert message which the 80s B's subsequent investigation of the event established was due to a shaft failure in the engines oil pressure pump oh so it was like a no kidding low pressure indication that alert required immediate crew action comprising of reducing thrust on the affected roll or reducing thirst on the effective roll experiment if you do reduce the thrust it does reduce the thirst as well Thu rst a new word on the rolls-royce trent 700 engine to idle and then in accordance with the airbus procedure quote if the warning persists shutting down the engine so apparently it did procedures need to be designed with clarity however the flight crew probably misinterpreted the term persists as requiring they wait a certain period of time to determine if the condition was persisting as a result they continued to troubleshoot the failure rather than shut down the engine hmm yeah I don't think I would have gotten that thing be shut off quickly well yeah I'm one kind of troubleshooting you can do you can look at the oil pressure gauge but that's it that's all the troubleshooting you can do and somebody out there did the engine and open up the hood see what's going right but your dipstick in it's above the expression what are you guys call that you call it a dipstick yeah we do yes okay amazing and I found that open with generally we hadn't commented after monitoring the engine the flight crew perform or informed the view that the warning was a result of a gauge failure okay it with the intent of further troubleshooting the crew then increased the engines thrust this led to the engine stalling and ultimately failing yeah however despite evidence to the contrary the flight crew determined that the failed engine was not damaged and could be restarted what consequently and contrary to the operators procedures the flight crew made two attempts to restart the failed engine even though there was no there was no safety risk to the aircraft that demanded a restart attempt both attempts attempts failed so basically they took an engine that could probably be repaired pretty easily to destroy yeah I wrecked it yeah I mean thinking I don't know also which I wish I could have a chat with him because you do wonder what was going through the captain's mind what why on earth II thought he'd get an engine with no oil pressure going again I don't know well you know when he thought it was just a gauge even though everything else was supporting the fact that it's not a gauge it's it's the real deal you don't have engine oil pressure anymore do not operate the engine it says also contrary to the operators procedures the flight crew elected to divert to Melbourne following the engine failure rather than to closer suitable airports and Alice Springs and Adelaide although twin-engine airliners such as the a330 are designed to fly safely on a single engine this decision increased the time that the aircraft was operating in an elevated risk environment of single engine operations and so the report goes on to talk a little bit more about these bad decision the bad decision making and see it closes was since the incident AirAsia X restated the operational requirements for flight crews for engine restarts and diversion decision-making further the airline has also used the occurrence as the basis for a training package for responding to engine failure restarting failed engines and diversion decision making yeah a lot of a lot of bad decisions made right there but you know if one engine has failed now you only have one source of power to keep that airplane flying and you know it's best to get the airplane on the ground to a suitable Airport yeah hence the wording on your a warning panel which will be land as soon as possible yep Oh your panel actually says that I believe so yes I don't remember exactly the wording now but it's either at land as soon as practicable or land as soon as possible one of the other will come up and of course they in order to get all the way down to Melbourne which is just about as far as Sydney they could almost have gone to either they had to go past Adelaide now Adelaide's a pretty impressive airport it's a fine airport you can get in there there's all sorts of maintenance stuff so that wouldn't be a problem but of course just up there had they continued for a fraction of the distance they could have thrown into Alice which is not the biggest of airports but it will certainly handle a330 and without any problem and I suspect it would have been a bit hot but actually there's plenty of tourist hotels and things around so you can find somewhere for your passengers to stay usually and they should have no trouble flying spares into their flying an engine and if they needed to but yeah I do have to question quite a few decisions the crew make here and go now wasn't your brightest day guys no yeah I think all of the the professional airline pilots listening to this and others of you are thinking huh what why did they make that decision just scratching our head there okay well you know happy ending for the passengers at least and I'm sure that the crew got a little bit of a debriefing regarding this I suspect they did yes all right next in our news folder an update we talked about this on an earlier show American Airlines mechanic pleads guilty in airplane tampering incident a former American Airlines mechanic pleaded guilty on Wednesday to a charge of attempted destruction of an aircraft that was scheduled to depart from Miami with 150 people on board his name is Abdul Majeed Marouf Achmed Aulani 60 60 years old of Tracy California admitted that on July 17th he tampered with the air data module system of an aircraft at Miami International Airport that was scheduled to depart for Nassau Bahamas he faces up to 20 years in prison a lawyer for Aulani who remains behind bars I don't think the lawyer is the yeah I was gonna ask why as long it was probably some some other problem that he was having a guest just drinking too much yeah did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the day of the flight well number one for takeoff or taking the departure runway the flight crew increased power to the engines and preparation for takeoff which resulted in an error reading by the aircraft's computer and the takeoff was aborted prior to the aircraft scheduled takeoff Aulani had inserted a foam substance into the Adm system and used superglue to hold the substance in place American airline said in the statement that after it learned about the allegations we inspected aircraft that mr. aloni had worked on to ensure that they were safe safe his conduct is not representative of the world-class work performed every day by our 15,000 Technical Operations Safety professionals when law-enforcement officials interviewed Aulani after his arrest he claimed he was upset over stalled labor talks and that he had tampered with the aircraft hoping that a delay or cancellation would lead to overtime work the been the bonus is that he knew exactly what the problem was it wouldn't take him long to fix the airplane right now there was when we talked about this originally they had not yet at that point ruled out a possible terrorist act but it looks like here now it's more of a personal thing on his part rather than a trying to you know kill 150 passengers yeah I guess together they've been some very acrimonious labor relations between the airline and the engineers which have been going on for a very long time now um is it you know if that's been resolved yet yeah I do not know who the drive but it's always sad you know even in the most dire of circumstances if you're having bad relations with your wife or your company you should never tamper with things that make aircraft and say if it just goes without saying but yeah we rely on trust so much in this industry we rely even in the worst circumstances on everyone who does work on our aircraft to be trustworthy otherwise the whole system kind of breaks down yes so true all right item C you'll remember back in February of this year there was a horrible crash of a 767 freighter operated by well Amazon Prime air but they are most of those flights I think are operated by Atlas atlas pilots and I don't know if this is the actual final reporter is just the release of the docket I believe I think they're still in the investigatory process and possibly getting close to issuing a final report on this on this crash so just to remind you the first officer at the controls of an Amazon air cargo flight that crashed in Texas near Houston appeared confused crying out that the plane had stalled during the final moments and putting it into a deep or a steep dive while the captain tried to pull the planes nose up fact-finding reports released by the US National Transportation Safety Board Thursday suggests the NTSB says that the first officer failed proficiency evaluations during his training at Atlas air which operates Amazon air flights and at his prior job at Mesa Airlines he also washed out of training at two other airlines which he concealed which he concealed when he applied for work at Atlas claiming that that that he had been doing freelance real-estate work and taking college classes during that period of time the NTSB released over 2,000 pages of documents from its investigation into the February 23rd crash of Atlas air flight 30 591 bound from Miami to Houston which killed all three on board it has not yet issued conclusions about how or why the crash occurred nonetheless the factual reports raised questions about training and pilot monitoring at Atlas air at the time when it at a time when it and other cargo carriers and small passenger airlines are struggling to attract and retain pilots amid a mounting shortage the Boeing 767 which is sending an approach to landing at George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston when the first officer Conrad Aska or osku said that the primary flight display wasn't working properly on his side and transferred control to the captain Rickey Blakeley he later said that there was a problem with the attitude director indicator or horizontal situation indicator we call that the ADI / HSI which tells pilots what the planes angle is relative to the horizon captain Blakely gave control back to Oscar after they believed that the indicator was working properly again and I believe if you look into the details there there are ways for if a display on one side let's say the first officers displays are not working properly you can usually switch both sides of the cockpit to the same source so that you can restore the display on the other side and the thing you have to keep in mind of course is that now you don't have dual separate sources for these for these systems but I think that's what they did they went through and they kind of trouble shot a little bit very quickly to restore the displays on the FO side of the cockpit so the captain gave the FO the control of the airplane back to him they began to prepare the plane for their approach as they maneuvered around a rainstorm the plane hit turbulence and then five seconds later a minute before impact the automatic go-around switch was turned on which is intended to be used when pilots seek to afford a landing it automatically increases thrust to enable a 2,000 foot per minute climb however the activation may not have been intentional the pilots made no no mention of initiating a go-around NTSB investigators suspect Oscar may have become disoriented while the plane was in cloud cover with the acceleration from the increased thrust tricking him into perceiving that the plane's nose was too high leading him to believe the plane was stalling six seconds after the go-around switch was activated he pointed the plane's nose down at a sharp 49 degree nose down angle the first officer expressed surprise about the plane speed according to a transcript of the flight voice recorder whoa where's my where is my speed my speed followed by the sounds of thumping in the cockpit we're stalling stall so they have a lot of speed but he thinks they're in stall okay the flight data recorder shows Blakeley the captain beginning to pull up on the yoke on his side while the FO is still pushing the yoke down and pointing the nose of the plane down why with Aska only joining the captain pulling up after the plane to send it through the bottom of the cloud cover at around 30,000 excuse me 3,500 feet in the final moments Aska says lord have mercy a captain for Mesa airlines Shawn Archuleta who was catching a ride in the jump seat shouts pull up then osku says Oh God Lord you have my soul the planes last recorded airspeed was a blistering four hundred and thirty three point five knots and security camera footage shows it was descending at a steep angle when it dove into a swamp two miles from on UOC Texas not sure if I'm pronouncing that run or not anyway let's see Keith Mackey a florida-based flight safety consultant and former airline pilot and crash investigator cautions that the information released by the NTSB is preliminary but he says it paints a picture of an unprecedented breakdown of communication between two pilots who were operating at cross-purposes quote from him says I've never heard of a situation where one pilot was pulling on the yoke and another was pushing on it and they weren't discussing what they were doing well in that Air France 447 kind of comes to mind they obviously wouldn't have been able to feel the other person doing something in opposition to what they're doing but isn't that the case in that situation as well that one on one side was trying to push the nose down and the first officer was still pulling fullback on his stick I know it's not exactly the same situation because we're talking about fly-by-wire control systems and no feedback and that kind of thing well I believe at one point the other pilot did try to counter the nose-down pitch that the handling pilot was putting in since he failed to press the takeover button he didn't know he would have had no effect well I would have summed the air it started slowly level off if he come fullback stick now the pilots still have full forward stick you'd end up with commanding level attitude because they they it's like a plus and a minus but this this for me it is an interesting point you raise everyone said that having control yokes on the side of the cockpit so that you can't see and are linked are a real disadvantage in comparison where the yokes right in front of you and you can see and feel what the other guys doing apparently not in this situation because despite the fact that they have their control yokes and they're physically connected to each other they still managed one pilot still managed to dive the airplane into the ground you would have thought that in this case if you had felt that the other person was doing something in opposition that you would say something and appear nothing was said so so the only advantage of I can see in this situation of the Airbus flight control system is that a simple pressing of a button overrides what the other pilots doing so if the captain had wanted to take control because he realized the other pilot was making it mistake press of the takeover button on his stick and he would have completely turned off the first officers control inputs and he could have flown the aircraft just by himself and of course the air mass won't allow a pitch down of that degree it will limit the pitch down or only thirty degrees at that point it starts to counter the pilots input because it says there are no situations when they yeah when you should be doing this so where Airbus might not have ended up in the same situation yeah I'm not trying to muddy up the situation here you know just a it just came to mind that he said he couldn't think of any other case when pilots were putting in opposite controls and not saying something about it and I'm thinking I think it's some other you know yeah cases of that kind of thing which is kind of perplexing but you know we weren't there at the moment a lot of confusion apparently I have been on an airplane as a flight engineer when engines didn't respond as quickly as they should have and we got a little slow and when the rush of the three engines started kicking in in IMC you definitely get that feeling that the airplane is doing some odd unusual you know type of maneuver and you get that it messes up with your head with the sudden acceleration so I could see why you might get that feeling on the other hand there's a reason why we have these instruments in front of us and we are taught from early on to trust them you have to disregard the feelings that you're experiencing and you have to trust your instrumentation and if he had looked down and saw that he was not indeed super nose high he wouldn't have forced the yoke down so severely in my opinion but anyway going back to the report why do you think he pressed the toga buttons well so here this the next paragraph kind of addresses that among the questions investigators will seek to answer whether osku accidentally palmed the go around switch while reaching for the throttle or intentionally activated it and whether the attitude indicator he had previously complained about was still malfunctioning adding to his confusion so they're still trying to figure all that stuff out and another another source of information not official that I had heard that it's possible that the captain may have accidentally activated the go-around switch when he was kind of reaching around to activate the flaps and slats but again I don't know I I haven't had time to look at this entire docket of information that was published to see if that is one of the possible scenarios there but they're still trying to work that out the thing that really well in addition to the perplexing way that the crew handled this situation is the setup I guess you'd say you know we talked about accidents and the Swiss cheese holes and the Swiss cheese on lining and the like that stuff apparently the first officer had a very very poor training and evaluation history and and also the captain not maybe quite as bad as the first officer but I'll read a little bit of this here ask the first officer who was 44 joined Atlas in 2017 from the regional airline Mesa where he had failed to win promotion to captain on the Embraer 175 regional jet after being given unsatisfactory rating into flight simulator sessions to Mesa captain's who have alia evaluated him told the NTSB that he would get flustered when he encountered unexpected situations in training he would make frantic mistakes and would start pushing a lot of buttons without thinking about what he was pushing he also failed to finish training at two other US airlines he left air Wisconsin after four months of training to be a first officer of a Bombardier CRJ regional jet the NTSB says that he cited personal reasons in 2011 he resigned after a month at commute error due to lack of progress in training to become first officer of Dava de Havilland Canada – eight regional turboprop he failed to list his stints at air Wisconsin and commute ere on his employment application at Atlas so they were not aware of it with that information we would not have offered him a position the NTSB quotes the executive is saying Wow so this is an interesting thing after the 2009 Colgan air crash Congress required the Federal Aviation Administration to set up a clearing house including FAA and employer records on pilots to aid carriers and vetting them but it has yet to complete the process that was what is taking so long I know that's I that blew me away when I read that I think what I thought that was in place apparently not that sorry yeah okay so osku gets hired by Atlas and let's see he did not go smoothly he was required to undergo four and a half hours of remedial instruction before he could take an oral exam and then he was held back for four additional hours of remedial training on a fixed base simulator before he was allowed to proceed to training on a full flight simulator let's see after two sessions a fellow student he was paired with complained that osku was holding him back and his instructors decided to restart his full flight simulator training from the beginning he failed his practical 767 type rating examination the NTSB says due to unsatisfactory performance and crew resource management threat and error management non-precision approaches steep turns and judgment so after all that Romania training he passed and so now you kind of have an idea that you know it wasn't the best pilot at the base also the 60-year old captain Blakely was enrolled in the proficiency watch program at Atlas in 2015 after he initially failed to win his 767 type rating according to Atlas error instructor comments he was not recommended due to over speeding the flaps during stall recovery consistently failing to set missed approach altitude and missed approach procedures he completed remedial training and was awarded a 767 rating later in that year so it looks like it was a little bump in the road for him not a major record of failure so I I wouldn't necessarily make a big thing out of failing to get the flaps up in a store recovery right you know your primary job there just stop there cross stalling yeah you accidentally over speed the flaps in the recovery then welfare are no el-sayf exactly yeah the other bits and bobs are procedural and you know you wonder what kind of a workload it was in to fail to set mr. breech altitude but people can just learn to fix that doesn't sound like he had a major handling or instrument you know reading problem I'm like his first officer who seems to be a bit of a disaster yes yes very sad very sad so that's what we have so far with their investigation and the release of the 2,000 plus pages of material they have so far and it'll be interesting to see the final report and the conclusion that they make regarding this that and interestingly Atlas did have that program the I forgot what the name of it is now the proficiency watch program and the NTSB was kind of scratching their heads why they didn't put the fo on the FAA mandated six-month proficiency watch program and atlases fleet captain for the 747 and 767 told NTSB investigators that he chalked up the pilots poor performance to nervous and considering the gaps in his training and family issues he was experiencing decided to just keep an eye on his performance of course you know they didn't realize that he had been at two other airline's and had basically failed to you know get it done isn't I don't know what a proficiency watch program is but it sounds like it is the same as keeping an eye on his performance so right why not put him in the program at least you've formalized at them and you know made sure that he doesn't slip through the cracks they probably wish now that they had yeah oh well what a mess what a mess it is but I mean a totally mishandled problem by the looks of it yeah sounds like it all right moving on item D in the news folder a 16 year old teenager tried to steal a Vueling aircraft at Paris Orly not another one yes well these teenagers getting up to nowadays I don't know but apparently the flight simulator videogames are just not proving to be as realistic as they're desiring and so they want to do the real thing yeah so this 16 year old was arrested after being found on board an aircraft back in June at Orly since the arrest the adolescent has been in detention according to sources the young man wanted to return home after having lived in a few months on the street in the Paris region this is a quote that's my favorite of this news article this is from his lawyer his idea was to take the plane not obviously to steal one wait a minute yeah okay isn't that the same thing if you're gonna take the plane that's kind of you're taking something that doesn't belong to you isn't that the definition of stealing is I'm a lawyer but okay yeah and aspire so EEOC days would be saying obviously yeah let's see still managed to pass all the controls I guess they mean security controls without anyone knowing how the man is suspected to have climbed a wall that everything is still very confused after trying to get into a first plane the teenager man to slip into the cockpit of an empty Airbus a321 that's the one he was trying to borrow not steal and installed himself at the controls of the aircraft a maintenance technician discovered the teenager pushing certain buttons policemen had difficulties trying to arrest the Moroccan as the young man refused to give in placed in police custody he also did not want to submit to DNA sampling what did he have a choice yeah and must be being very nice to him as all I can think yeah you know that's about the only detail we have on this whole thing I'm wondering if it was part of the gate how did he think he was gonna get the airplane pushback or was it out like on its own on a stand or something and where he could I wish I wish we knew but yeah it's Eva I even on a rowboat stand you're very lucky if you haven't got something in the way the tour lady just takes you forward usually there's light stanchions or things in front of you there very few that in my experience that you can just takes you forward from but they just like that seventeen-year-old girl that tried to steal the king air I think we talked about on the way yep yeah things got worse she got binging going yeah she did only one though yeah yeah sadly yeah alright there's another interesting one from simple flying calm the Robert from may Rhetta sent this to us he says happy holidays crew mom is making me wait to break out the Jack Daniels but in the meantime I thought this story might prompt some decent conversation and the the title of this is United Airlines 767 prompts sonic boom over France actually I think he changed the title it prompts a sonic boom over France after losing contact with ATC I think he added that a non responding United Boeing 767 and I put in brackets flight crew I think they were the ones that weren't responding flying over France invoked a sonic boom as fighter jets have raced to intercept the aircraft the plane was able to establish communications with the ground via the French Air Force aircraft and continued on its journey by the way I had to basically right that entire paragraph because it just didn't make any sense the way it was written before it touched it so United Airlines flight 121 had just left from sunny barthelona to head back towards new Newark New Jersey in the US when it lost radio communication over France so it just transitioned from Spanish airspace to French airspace they didn't establish communications with French air traffic control and so finally I don't know if they know how long they wait but they finally scrambled a couple fighters and the fighters were able to rendezvous with the flight and apparently they were able to communicate with them most likely on the guard frequency one 21.5 got them on the correct frequency re-established communications with ground control and then they were off on their merry way to Newark and I love this paragraph of the of this article from simple flying the Jets took off with a roar and kicked in the afterburners blowing out a sonic boom to catch up to the aircraft let's see the sonic booms are a rolling sound wave and I put in it's really a shock wave that can be louder than a car door slamming next to your ear kicking up awake affecting other aircraft not gonna put that sure I don't know if a a shock wave would affect the would that affect other aircraft Nick well no I've flown right complete formation with another aircraft and we both mean supersonic and I can promise you there's you don't really feel a thing yeah I didn't think so but I thought having you on the show would be great because you could you know say yay or nay on that I had a feeling you were gonna say nay I mean you can you can't sometimes hear it but soundproofing has to be you know yeah I've heard Concorde go over the top of me while I've been across the Atlantic and I could very faintly hear but I asked the rest of the cabin crew if anyone working in the cabin had heard the boom and they all said no didn't everything yeah oh it obviously wasn't very dramatic I think it's only dramatic to the people that are on the ground that are hearing the boom and had their windows are rattling or sometimes even breaking and that kind of thing yeah that's that's the only alarm I think that it would it would cause yes I mean exactly right I do remember a mirage and Australian Mirage jet over flew one of their frigates very fast and he dropped a boom on them and the pressure difference was so great because they had closed up the aircraft fraction of the ship for action stations that it buckled bulkheads and things but that's really because um you know there was nowhere for the air inside the ship to escape when the pressure suddenly changed as the sonic boom went over shockwave went over so you know it just bent metal because it tried to there try to get out and why don't ya the Range Safety officers hunt near William town someone dropped a boom over there doing a sneaky fly past it's only five miles from the airbase so we thought he was doing don't know but he managed to blow the window out and crack the concrete Range Safety officers Hut so Wow so you can do damage with a sonic boom but you know not usually between aircraft I know if this is off track you're kind of going down a rat hole or whatever oh yeah yeah depends on what part of the country you're but have you been able to see the or catch the latest trailer teaser for Top Gun – oh yes and I watched a couple of ex-navy finder pilots on a podcast talking through some of the maneuvers that were being performed yeah it's very impressive I thought it's going to be a great movie if if only for the flying sequences so I the one of that's the scene that in that little short trailer that really impressed me the most and I don't know I don't think it's CGI I think it's actual footage of like the camera the airplane that has the mounted in it behind whatever it has an f-18 whatever and he puts it in a burner apparently and just really quickly accelerates straight ahead right in front of this I've never seen an acceleration like that before in my life I'm hoping that's the real thing and not CGI but welcome so am i but I suspect with a wide angle lens things turn into a dot fairly quickly but I have been told that all the all the flying sequences are like in the original movie there's no CGI there they sort of like with actual aircraft and using conventional photography so yeah and I've seen some very close aboard passes and some pretty impressive close manoeuvring hard maneuvering and I'm thinking well it's good flying so that stuff looks really good yeah but the flying you know I just hope that they have a scene with topless volleyball and when I say top they do the men you know yeah they do and and there are some ladies there but are they topless as well ah well all right I guess it's time for those yes and the girl say by the way going back to this you know their lines I know of a few aircraft that have had this problem coming towards America and they haven't been allowed to continue they've been immediately intercepted and forced to land straight away so I think the French were being very relaxed about yes in letting United carry on regardless very hospitable yes I thought so yeah good point good point all right moving on final report no I don't remember even hearing about this at all maybe it's just because my brain is old and I'm just not remembering things but apparently back in 2019 yeah Thursday ma okay was this this this year oh we're still in 2019 right okay yeah pretty soon it'll be 20/20 hindsight so a Buffalo Airlines dc-3 near Hay River on May 3rd performed a forced landing after engine failure was a douglas c-47a skytrain registration Charlie Golf Juliet kilo Mike performing flight 169 from Hay River NT what is NT Northern Territories I think our our intrepid producer will let us know NT is most likely Northern Territory's to Yellowknife with two crew was enroute about 20 minutes into the 55 minute flight when the right-hand engine failed the crew attempted to return to hey River however had to perform a forced landing in open terrain around about 8 o'clock in the morning local the crew remained uninjured the status of the aircraft at that point was currently unknown on May 7th the Canadian TSB reported they opened a class 4 investigation which is limited scope medium level of efforts in investment medium level of efforts not a high level of yeah even I have to try to guys yeah it's like it was just a DC through a c-47 a so worried about it a maximum 2,000 word short report without findings or recommendations my desk first thing in the morning yeah anyway they said during the climb out the number one engine at Pratt & Whitney are 18 30 on the left side lost power completely the crew elected to return we already talked about that they initially declared a pan-pan but they upgraded to Mayday and performed a forced landing about three and a half nautical miles southeast of the Hay River Airport none of the two crew were injured the aircraft sustained substantial damage no fire broke out so trying to kind of just get you can give you a synopsis of what happened here the the aircraft they pulled the power back on the number one advanced power on the right side apparently it didn't really have much effect on the ink the thrust really didn't increase at all the weather at the time was not good at all they when they left it was for statute miles and lights no a few minutes later the visibility to decrease decreased to one-and-a-half statute miles and lights no ceiling 3,500 feet so I mean it wasn't great I mean it was not super bad but it wasn't the best weather in the world so the the thing that I think was most interesting to me on this was that at a certain point the captain said something about prepping the landing gear and I think the first officer I guess that was non-standard communication the FO extended the landing gear which the captain did not expect because the aircraft had not started its final approach and the airport had not been visually acquired so I think one of the problems in this situation was that they were using non-standard terminology and weren't following the checklists exactly and the first officer you know mistook the captain's you know sentence or command prepping the gear as to lower it in in in other words a lot of landing gear a lot of drag coming out one engine shut down completely the other operating not at its best and at some point the captain realizes that there their performance is really diminished I think they got down to like 80 knots and they weren't very high above the ground 1,100 feet above the above sea level I'm not sure what the what the elevation there is an ASL above sea level anyway they were okay anyway so when he realized that they were getting really low really slow and they still had a ways to get to the airport he directed the landing gear to be raised after the landing gear was raised the flight crew heard abnormal sounds and felt vibrations from the right engine and okay this is the plane I guess where they had the issue with the right engine and then basically they couldn't make it to the airport they had to put it down on flat land as mentioned there were no injuries and a picture of the c-47 look like the thing was pretty well intact I would imagine it they could probably continue flying that airplane again after they do some repairs well they're pretty tough airframes yeah so yeah depends how much money they want to invest in it I expect yeah what do you think Nick anyway a very general comment I'm gonna make is we seem to cover this problem of crew communication and standard operating procedures more and more often and for me it doesn't matter whether it's up there in Canada flying a lovely old c-47 or in the latest and greatest modern airliners we're still two people doing a job and we need to communicate efficiency efficiently and correctly particularly in an emergency situation and when that breaks down problems are going to occur and we've seen two incidents already and just in this show yeah seem to typify that so that is a concern for me yes me too and I think most of us have a big concern about that and I don't know what to do I mean airline training programs you know this Nick and I and Dana know it as well that our airlines you know really really promote strongly cockpit or crew resource management and threat error management and everything else and it continues to be a weak point it appears yeah I don't know what the cure is because the airline's trying hard to minimize the expense of training but it's obvious that perhaps we need to devote more time not less into making sure everyone knows which page we're reading from at which point in the flight and and for me I don't know I'd shake my head and go it's alright for me I'm a retired plate it's a matter of discipline on the flight day and I I do worry when people aren't disciplined enough to do their job properly yeah and no Carlos it's it's okay it's not too hot the fire behind me it is warming my buns but I like warm buns all right am I your eggnog I do like my I do enjoy my nog okay I just wish somebody else would know all right damn or is it okay G a back-air bek air fokker 100 registration uniform Papa Foxtrot one zero zero seven performing flight 2100 from Almaty or Almaty I'm not sure Oh Mattie we used to Mattie okay to Astana in Kazakhstan with 93 passengers and five crew departed al Mattie's runway five right in the morning at 7:20 one local lost height shortly after departure impacted ground broke through a concrete wall fence impacted a building no fire broke out the aircraft broke into several sections there are some conflicting numbers of dead and injured and that kind of thing but it looks like 12 people died and several are in severely critical wood condition you should get the word I'm looking for and 74 people survived with no or minor injuries let's see let's move on to the applicable stuff of the actual incident oh by the way they did mention that the captain did die as a result of the accident well I think steam ran out of the cockpit it's right on yes yeah it was he made a connection to a brick building on that side of the cockpit unfortunately Kazakhstan's Deputy Prime Minister reported from preliminary results by the investigation investigation Commission suggests the aircraft struck its tail under the runway surface twice with a distance of 300 to 400 meters in between at the end of the runway the aircraft turned sharply to the right the landing gear was retracted at this point already the runway conditions were perfect however the Commission is looking into human error or technical reasons the fly data and cockpit voice recorders have been recovered and they mentioned again captain died the first officer is in hospital care with serious injuries a survivor reported the aircraft climbed a little bit before it began shaking then a collision occurred someone opened the emergency exit and the passenger got out there were a lot of injuries and a number of fatalities another passenger reported the aircraft had just rotated and was beginning to gain altitude when the aircraft rolled left then right then an impact occurred the over-wing exit the aircraft via an icy wing everyone on the wing slipped on the wing the passengers helped each other to get off the wing the pilot of an aircraft departing Almaty about three hours before the accident reported that during about two hours minimal white frost had developed on the wings and tanks of his aircraft the rest of the wing wings were clean however other aircraft having parked overnight had accumulated significant ice during departure I don't know what that is in their 80s be data transmitted by the aircraft's transponder suggest the aircraft became airborne climbed only to between 50 and 100 feet above ground veered to the right impact of buildings a beam the runway about 3000 meters 10,000 feet down the runway five right conditions at the time meet our let's say P 2005 right I think that must be is that the it's at the RvR I'm not sure what that number is I'm not used to seeing P 2000 and and P mm D but they did mention missed and fu I think that's a few – yeah okay sorry didn't mean to be so abrupt there that's fog what's the f you stand for like undetermined I'm not sure maybe somebody can help us in our brain trust but a team missed oh fuck f you take a look yeah I don't recall run offhand what that hue stands for – 12-13 the temperature so very close temperature dew point spread hardly any spread of smoke smoke okay yeah oh how about that nothing to do with fog mist and smoke anyway low visibility very cold and well I don't know if this low visibility or not what do they say here for that again not reading this very well sorry anyway so looks like then what runway conditions were fine and they are going to be focusing upon the condition of the aircraft before it started its takeoff roll were there was there ice on the critical surfaces of the aircraft a lot of people are suspecting there was interestingly when I was doing a little bit of research on this the there were a couple of big crashes of Fokker 100 s and other Fokker models previously and where we're undetected wing icing was implicated the installation of the leading-edge ground heating device was a recommendation of the report by Francis B EA investigation agency from what I can tell the ground heating system fitted to the final few aircraft off the production line and also installed on others out there operating basically allowed for the same kind of heating leading-edge heating system to to occur to to take place on the ground whereas a lot of these kind of systems aren't allowed to be used until the airport the airplanes in the air where there's better cooling and that kind of thing and apparently they made some modifications to the system I don't know if they lower the temperature of the air or what that they did call for a mandatory system to help with these undetermined or undetected wing icing situations and in another report that I was reading or another article they said among the aircraft delivered with the system installed vyasa's directive noted was this airplane the airframe involved in the bec air accident at Almaty the status of the system of the aircraft has not been clarified so I don't know if it was working or not but it was installed so I don't know Nick it sure looks like another situation where the aircraft attempted to take off with what the cluttered you know Kanto native wing contaminated yeah yeah certainly I mean it would be my first guess just looking at the indication so a vibration a wing drop would indicate to me that there's a possibility the wing stalled and the fact they hadn't got airborne correctly in the fact they also hit tail down onto the runway maybe it was a nose high stall situation yeah it would would indicate that that and the fact that people were sliding off the wing as they tried to get off means that it probably hadn't been cleaned properly so not good no no although there's no other weather condition I could see the temperature was certainly good enough for ice minus 12 and minus 13 so yeah it was the conditions were there if they'd been sent overnight there's a good chance it would have had some contaminant on the wing and I you know he takes one of these accidents before people start taking de-icing seriously again only if it gets out of course because you know they it's just not worth taking the risk it really doesn't yeah at the time the the delay induced by de-icing is one of those things where you're thinking oh this is horrible that this is much more horrible when you don't take the time and you don't delay the flight and you don't do the required de-icing and I guess this wing from what I can tell is a very very supercritical type of design did not have leading-edge devices at all and a very slick wing I guess we'd say and apparently there have been other instances of ice on the wing and the crews not detecting the presence of and I think that they have to their procedures require that you do a tactical wing inspection in other words actually putting either some type of a device designed to detect ice or actually putting your hands on the wing to see whether or not because it can be tricky if it's clear ice sometimes they look the the wing just looks like it's has nothing on it just shiny yeah yeah exactly yeah but people who operate regularly in these type of areas they ought to know they because it's part and parcel of the operational routine if they were coming from somewhere near the equator and they were operating up there for the first time you might go well they perhaps they didn't realize but people who spend there in their lives flying around these areas they really ought to understand the risks yes absolutely quickly there was a helicopter tour operator on the Island of Hawaii that crashed and there were six passengers and the pilot all died in this area of which I hear is very beautiful let's say what's the name of the canyon why my maiya canyon or something like that they they said it they used it as the background for the Jurassic Park movies and oh wow you know beautiful waterfalls and and really steep cliffs and that kind of thing and apparently it took them some took them some time but they did find the bodies of the occupants of the helicopter that crashed which is sad it doesn't really say exactly what happened they do mention that the weather in that area of the island can one moment be beautifully clear in another moment low ceilings fog cloud banks that kind of thing heavy rain strong winds so yeah that's uh that's sad that people were looking quite amazed to read that there were nine crashes of Hawaii helicopter sightseeing flights in the last ten years that's one a year so you know you this is something that you would take for granted just being find the holiday thing to do safest houses and absolutely stunning but you wouldn't expect to lose a helicopter every year no you wouldn't kind of gives pause to you know when you think about going over there and doing this kind of excursion maybe not maybe I'll just stay on the ground and try to see everything from that perspective save my money I'll rent a DVD and I'll have a few more pina coladas please I like that alright and then finally a lot of items in our news folder but I was determined to crack through all of them and this last one just occurred a few days ago it was a private aircraft a piper pa-31 t Cheyenne to November 42 Charlie Victor the airplane was taking off from Lafayette Louisiana enroute to Atlanta the Peach Bowl was on Saturday this past weekend and the they were all heading up to Atlanta to land at the dekap a tree Airport where we've had some some meetups Nick you'll remember that really nice meetup that we had there at the PDK that's where they were headed but shortly after takeoff the airplane crashed and it was destroyed by impact with a road and a post-crash fire and we have some pretty good photos here and a video taken by a bystander shortly after this incident occurred and it was really powerful to me this video because it's clear that even the emergency responders are not yet on scene and you can hear like the trees crackling from the intense fire in the in the the main section of this wreck you can see the post office that the the aircraft crashed in the parking lot of this post office and then just kept on going into an open field apparently some injuries on the ground as well there was a Chevy Suburban and also what say is a Jeep although it doesn't it's hard for me to tell exactly what kind of vehicle it was it doesn't look like a Jeep to me but who knows was completely engulfed in flame and apparently there was there's a serious injury that has occurred in one of the vehicles that the airplane hit apparently during this crash we don't really know exactly what happened here not a lot of engine oil you need to me it just it okay thank you let's see the there were some witness reports here now we always you know take those with a grain of salt because you know humans are sometimes not very accurate when it comes to what they think they saw history bad yeah but where are the witness reports I put them somewhere in here hmm oh here we go eyewitnesses tell the local news affiliate klf why they heard sounds from above like a semi truck as the lights went out in businesses and residences near the crash scene several residents tell klf why they're without power at this hour a local resident saw the crash I was right outside before the crash I noticed the plane was low and smoking like hell it shook my trailer I knew something was bad I went into my house and all you heard was this massive explosion other eyewitnesses say that someone was scream screaming from a car there were little explosions for five minutes or so after that there was a big old ball of flame so sadly everyone on board this twin light twin Cheyenne perished in in the accident so we're hoping that we'll be able to find out exactly what happened here if it was an engine failure situation where they lost control of the airplane or what but anyway it just goes to show you that life is precious and for some of us short and this is another you know we keep seeing a lot these GA accidents occurring and it's just it's not a good thing it gets kind of a black eye to general aviation in general and I wish that we'd start seeing fewer and fewer of these and not more and more yeah now Danis here perhaps he knows a little bit about this aircraft how well it performs on one engine you know I wouldn't think necessarily what you hear that music it could only mean that our co-host Dana is with us from an undisclosed location he was raving his motorcycle while I was total somebody is thinking that hotel room really reminds me a lot of El Paso Texas I mean it does yeah well amazingly enough that's who we are hey tap on your mic yep it's not a it's not connected it's picking up your computer microphone I know I know what happened okay okay said you get where you want it for Christmas chip my tooth front teeth oh yeah well done mm-hmm I guess world peace oh well good well I kind of know you heard that if you saw that on the news well I guess Dana decided just just give up on us he's back that big intro hostage blink twice for help what is uber Frank sorry yeah the port I wonder who that hostage is and yes a hostage in in Dana's room oh dear yeah hi he's sad Dana just wearing a sweatshirt or something you know he could his vest on I don't know he's gone even from our view now in our little secret video view he's gone he's gone let's see I guess when he does come back on and he has the correct microphone selected I'll do his sound effect again and reintroduce him show should be get any new toys for Christmas I not really no oh do you not really I bought it I do have a new toy that I hear you now I can't hear you I don't think he's there the very mic select it again yes nice and on the computer it sounds all actually so the mic has to be selected in both places both your your your Mac and the the settings on Nick took himself out for some reason someone took me out read read Dana meow kick him off Jeff well he's cooked himself off appearance because it is both places at the end the mic has to be selected properly as you know both the the stream yard settings and also the computer itself ah good point and he's the last several shows we've done he has been at home and so he uses a little bit different setup he uses an interface I don't know why he doesn't use an interface when he goes on the road because it doesn't take that much room up honestly but he decides not to because it is a USB mic however it's not the most reliable in USB mode hello key hear me I can hear you on your computer's internal microphone hey have you checked both places not only your Mac but also the settings on the on some stream yours yeah yeah is it is the microphone showing up as an option it is okay then I don't hear anything now is the switch on this is nice which breaking I mean not try it now yeah that's switch that the one that you just moved on that's the one I was talking about is he like this on the aircraft I just want to know yeah but the funny part is that was working when I was plugged in we don't want to know about you well you were hearing your side band but it wasn't it wasn't getting to us ah okay at the Weizmann there we go I mean oh yeah it sounds like so you got you guys can hear us yes okay and we can hear you on the microphone now and not your computer mic so let's try this again hey I see somebody has joined us here from his hotel room in El Paso Texas barbecue master motorcycle rider pleasure boats skipper underwater photographer and captain for a major US legacy carrier and apparently now a kidnapper captain Dana good big guys great to be back on the show for another well I guess you've already said it so I'll just join the progress how's that sound but I would like to have somebody introduced oh wait wait unless we got some introduction we just have some music for our for our special guest okay go ahead well joining me my first officer who's been tortured by me for the last two and a half days will guy he is he is very intrigued by our show and has a lot of experience in the airline business used to be a regional guy that was a wine online check but a sim instructor check pilot so he's got a lot of experience and he wanted to come join us today so here he is Josh say hello hey Josh if you don't mind when you speak you try to get a little bit closer to the mic sounds so much better better the girls the chicks will dig it all right yeah much better hey Josh do you have any experience flying Piper 31 t Cheyenne – no I do not darn it and for Tina can you find somebody that does hey Josh what's going to leave the room we were just talking about the last item in the news folder Dana regarding the Lafayette Louisiana crash of a Cheyenne – killing all aboard they were heading from Lafayette up to Atlanta for the Peach Bowl on believe Saturday morning I think one survived no one did survive that's right he's an original condition that's true yeah yeah good point any experience at all with the Cheyenne Dana very very limited so no I obviously have to read and see what this says but oh there's not a lot to know there's no it just crashed just great enough to take off it was sounding like a semi-truck now I don't know what that means it's a lorry a large lorry yeah I got back I look at well yeah but I mean what an airplane has to do to sound like a semi-truck I'm not sure don't know well you know six occupants it's probably very closest max takeoff yeah there's but I think it's supposed to be able to hold like nine or ten if I'm not there's some data here and I saw three windows Jeff okay let me go and I think I think it's I think six is probably its max let's see the two two pilots and the four form the back maybe I'm making spellings more yeah we you know we can debate this all night long but we could and it's my truck I can just click on the PA 231 Chang into one my guess is eight I'm gonna go I just keep back to at the front now I'm gonna came by the number of windows yeah you wouldn't put extra windows even if you only have four seats in the back last true that's true well I guess it doesn't really matter does it it doesn't but anyway so you know what see all right George already contributing well I'm Josh a you've just raised our accuracy level well done I yes about fifty percent not just because he you thank you anyway so I would say it's pretty close to you know its maximum probably had quite a bit of fuel coming on Lafayette coming to the Atlanta area and my guess is either a stall the aircraft or had a critical engine failure and didn't control the aircraft probably that just being in the general aviation world and just to have to take off more than likely that would be my educated guess of course that's all it is is a guess so we'll have to wait and see if I'm if we're above or below 50% oh yeah we'll let the investigators do their thing and hopefully we'll find out more information about this at a later time but what we can do now that now that we're finished with the news segment getting to know you time yes it's that time where you learn more about what the hosts have been up to since the last episode and any meetups or future meetups scheduled that sort of thing and we just celebrated or many of us have Christmas time home the holidays and let's see let's start with captain Nick how was your your holiday sir well I guess they're still going aren't they well they are yeah and but we don't do much over New Year so Christmas is our thing really quiet family do for us so very pleasant and the the kids round they had lots of presents I had no at all because you know they no one ever buys me presents it's not fair Julie claims that new car out the front was my Christmas present but although it seems to have being a birthday present and a Christmas present and in for the next several years – yeah exactly right anyway know has some interesting little toys to play with some photographic gear that'll be nice um the only sad thing was we went to visit Julie side of the family she got a lot of cousins and chatting to a lovely bloke who it was a little older than us his daughter was gonna get married shortly very nice bloke and we got home and heard the next morning that he passed away jure of the night which kind of put the markers on Christmas to a certain extent because he was a favorite cousin of Jilly's and that was all very sad but you know people die it happens I'm afraid it was it's never a good time but just before your only daughter's married and right at Christmastime it's not perfect for really now that was a bit of a shame but other than that we've had a good time thank you very much I went the whole family out to see Star Wars despite what the critics said I loved it I thought it was great actually – captain okay go to seed and Christmas and I loved it as well oh good for you yeah I'm just hoping they can find some way to find another aspect of the story to have because I don't think I'll be able to have a Christmas without a Star Wars movie you realize it was 42 years ago around Christmas so I went down in Lincolnshire I was doing my phantom OCU to see the very first one I'm taking my lovely new wife Jilly in my beautiful little triumph Vitesse sportscar and we were on our way to watch the movie for the her first time my second time and we crashed the current row to Dolph that was 42 years ago but that's been an amazing saga the older star Star Wars saga to have gone that long so yeah that we were started talking about that when we were on our way to see the new one oh it had been snowing heavily that spy excuse ah that's a good excuse yeah and driving too fast right uh I was very for us but no I just defined a pile of course you're driving don't try to lie Nick I I quietly needed to use a telegraph pole to help me stop at a corner which wrecked the car and didn't do a lot of good to the telegraph pole come to that that mean like life's like that yeah so you tonight tell me you ruined somebody's Christmas message actually the telegraph pole was still standing but it costs a lot of money for me to have it replaced the car was too expensive for a poorly paid pilot officer to to have repaired so I sold it to a local garage and when I went back to that very same airbase quite a few years later I went past the garage and there it was not for sale beautifully restored in his front window a private place like Shannon marked here it was a lovely car oh well that's my Christmas okay you asked me if I during one of our tech breaks if I got any toys 4s Christmas or a birthday and not really but I did buy one for myself okay this microphone here is a new microphone that I bought for myself and it is a lot of you out there who are into professional audio and have recognized the name Newman this is not an oilman but this new startup in Southern California called audio Zone or tech zone audio products a very good name actually has come up with this new microphone where a lot of people out there are comparing it to the gnomon ua 87 which is a $1,300 mic and this one was under 200 so I thought I'd there are a lot of raves about this thing so I thought I'd go ahead and try it now this is unusual because I'm always preaching the benefits and such of dynamic microphones so going to probably just keep it in the the home studio and see how are you eating your words as well as your microphone I'm ma what eating your words is it well yeah it's sort of I guess it's descript what is it technically known as it's a large diaphragm compressor might you mean like the actual name of it yeah all the stellar x2 SGL lar x2 if you just do a search on youtube you'll see a whole bunch of people just you know going nuts about it and how great it sounds especially for the price so anyway so that's a I couldn't stand it I had to try it my my toys these days are audio products so oh it's nice it's got little hops on the front well actually that's the I think that's the counter pattern yeah yes anyway so I had a nice Christmas time as many of you know who have listened to the show for some time know that I like singing and I'm involved in several different choirs at my my parish church and on New Year's know not use Christmas Eve New Year's Eve is tomorrow Christmas Eve I ended up because of the fact that I'm singing with all these different groups it was a marathon for me I I ended up leaving the house at about one o'clock in the afternoon I sang at the two o'clock no let me take that back I left the house at three and I sang at the four o'clock the six o'clock the eight o'clock and midnight masses so four masses over a period of about nine hours ice masses of messes it was massive that was a massive mass that's what she said so yeah but my voice was still there actually after all of that and it wasn't until the other day Chris my son and I went to that steakhouse Dana iron-age delicious it was awesome and I guess I got a little particle or something in the back of my throat when I got home I was trying to you know I kept coughing trying to get rid of it and I ended up getting rid of about half of my my stomach full of wonderful Korean barbecue but something either that or the actual coughing or whatever messed up my vocal cord so the next morning I mean I couldn't I couldn't utter a sound definitely couldn't sing and I could hardly talk so it's gotten much better now after a day of pampering and drinking lots of hot liquids and such so what else has happened here had all the kids at home for the holidays and let's see that's about really all that I have to oh I I was a shade tree mechanic today my son's Jeep did not pass emissions and so I've got one of these code reader things and found out it was a one of those computers that modern cars now are full of and this one's called the powertrain control module and I just had that replaced just under two years ago in order to get it to pass emissions and that was like $1,800 with the part in labor and everything else and I was I did a little bit more research this time around found a place in South Florida that manufactures these PCM TCM computers and for about a third of the price already pre-programmed and it was so easy I can't tell you how easy it was to take the old one out put the new one on mcdu the connectors and and the engine service light is out and he hasn't gone back to the emissions testing station yet that were fingers crossed hoping that it's going to pass emission so before he heads back down to Orlando so yeah that's about it let's see let me look at my notes here just to make sure I'm not missing anything no I'm not so Dana you've been a busy man while everybody else has been enjoying our time off yeah everybody's been enjoying their time off and I actually have been out working the friendly skies 10 of 11 days in a row I do have to say it's been pretty mundane it's been pretty good I sent in some audio recordings I've had couple meetups one of which was that by complete accident Milwaukee my buddy Adam had to come in on a Deadhead into Milwaukee on another buddy's flight that I knew and Adam was signing into a tone so my name is Darren next thing I know I got a text hey Dana I'm here I said you're here we're Milwaukee oh really this is Christmas Eve so I took my first officer I didn't know at that point when I got texts we were having dinner at the steakhouse in the hotel which is actually a delicious steak house by the way ed I I almost never eat in hotels but this was a rare occasion because it was Christmas Eve I mean it was kind of chilly outside so I had a very very nice dinner there and I got the text but at the time as we were finishing up dinner that they were signing in and would be down to the sports bar in the hotel me as it turns out there was six of us all getting together six pilots and hung out and and we were jolly merry and having a good time and one of the folks just fun with you Jeff so excited that partying okay play the audio will be in go into that little piece now is it my connection or is it Dana's is he breaking up a little bit next is strifing to my arms okay yeah I am poor I am recording and I sent it to you because the Sun Bowl is here in the hotel is completely full of college co-eds so there are we all on their places they should be too busy to use those yeah it's a football game right okay so without further ado I'll go ahead and press this button and we'll hear Dana's Christmas Eve in Milwaukee hello APG community this is captain Damon and I happened to be on a fantastic overnight up here in Milwaukee on Christmas Eve and Buddy in mind that was on the overnight my buddy Adam reached out to me and said hey we're gonna be here in the overnight as well and by the way my buddy Adam told me that another friend Alan was here the overnight so we all hung out a little bit and had a good time and having a little bit of a conversation with one of the one of the other Acme pilots and he said well I just flew that guy Jeff Jeff Jeff who Jeff from AP GE line pilot guy no way really so they found that very interesting and so I said well Sean would you like to do a little recording sits sure so here I'm gonna hand the microphone over to Sean they can say hello on this wonderful Christmas Eve hey folks my name is Sean and I had the wonderful opportunity fly with Jeff from APG and it was a wonderful opportunity to fly with him and and I had met him prior but I knew about the apt podcast and it was wonderful actually to me one of the people involved with the podcast and we had a mechanical issue and it was our first Lake there and and we got there and it was just wonderful to be with a with a captain like that and we had a great trip you know a nice wonderful two-day trip and and now here I am right now on Milwaukee with another fellow Dana that is involved with a PG podcast and it was a wonderful to be a part of a small world of pilots that were involved with so it was just nice to be involved with that so hey thanks Dana for a for a hanging out with me and I appreciate the opportunity to say something and today 'no and ii i Jeff and that everyone apt that great pilots great people and it's a it's wonderful to be here thank you Sean you hit it right on the head this is an amazing community and without all the folks that are involved with it that listen to it that participate in it and they care about what we have of all in our community we wouldn't have that community so thank you very much and I know it's as a former first officers along with Jeff and a mentor to me he has represented a lot of great things in my life so I I get where you're coming from in it's amazing amazing experience to actually have had the opportunity to fly with Captain Jeff on that note it Christmas Eve up in Milwaukee Wisconsin and we had a fantastic night it turned out to be a lot more fun than I anticipated because we've got to hang out with great people like Sean them and some other friends that were here on an overnight so all I have to say is hey Jeff back to your studio and Merry Christmas to everybody Merry Christmas well thank you it's so nice to hear from some what a great guy huh what a great guy that guy Jeff you know what sudden Stevens video here and all most of those things you listen to the radio but his head is getting really big and oh I I don't deserve any of it that's for sure yeah enough money yeah money talks products I bought all the drinks so yeah he was very happy yeah I find that makes her first officers very happy when you buy their drinks and their meal yeah right josh josh josh is the beneficiary last night ah there he goes speaking of last night yeah did you get the audio I did okay well let me intro though so I have a nice 32 hour layover in the City of Brotherly Love actually originally had a three day trip that I swapped into this four day because of this wonderful layover that was out there I love Philadelphia and look be told the the weather actually was very cooperative was in you know mid forties it was kind of rainy and like raw but that's okay but had a surprise guest that had emailed me once they saw on my schedule that I was going to be in Philadelphia and then on top of that I had another guest that wanted to come join me that hasn't come on an overnight with her husband a long time as Captain Dena so my lovely bride came up to Philadelphia and we all got together and had a a blast of a time so instead of me introducing any further why don't you roll the tape okay rolling tape rolling tape rolled it well hello a PG committee this is captain Dana and I'm here on an overnight up here in Philadelphia Pennsylvania and came over to this bar called Smith's restaurant and lounge to watch the Patriots game that starts here in just a few minutes they're playing against the Miami Dolphins so looking forward to another great game in the conclusion of our season in the meantime a couple of a gentlemen have come out to meet up here in Philadelphia which is great so I want to go ahead and let those guys say something to the entire community today I also spoke to also spoke to cat Colonel Jeff as well surely he's a very apologetic he couldn't make it he had family commitments today but other than that we do you miss you Colonel Jeff and without that and any further ado I'm gonna hand the microphone over I'm slick guys introduce themselves tell them a little bit about themselves and we'll go from there so he go hi my name is Sal I'm a longtime APG listener I'm here with so much I'm here to meet here can be Dana aka Tony as I know him from podcast 90 up in Philadelphia live here on my life and when I found out they were in the area and I happened to see them on Facebook I said I got a make a point to come down here even though I'm leaving tonight for a flight out of the country I this is an opportunity that I figured I may not have again anytime in the near future so but I enjoy listening to the podcast and I'm not having much to drink because I'm gonna do most by drinking on the plane tonight and that way I can sleep it off the the 9:00 hour of flight but it's kind of fun it's kinda always interesting meeting people that you hear about on the radio and given the opportunity it's a worthwhile opportunity to these fine people enjoyed listen to Jeff and the rest of the crew and so I will now pass the microphone onto a back – great great I get a a PG community my name is Greg I'm from Brisbane Australia just come over for a couple of weeks holiday here in the u.s. flew into New York just come down to Philly to meet up with Dino and his lovely wife and I'll be down to the udvar-hazy Museum in Washington just to have a bit of a look around and back to New York and that kind of Brizzy love the apg podcast been listening for a quite a number of years now and just want to share that too captain Nick and dr. Steph and Captain Jeff now I didn't forget thank you very much for the podcast cowboy well thank you sadly Greg great all the way up here from Brisbane Australia and so all the way open and the wonderful South Philadelphia anyways you mentioned it Greg and I do have my lovely bride that joined me up here on this overnight of course what happened she gets on the airplane where was she sitting where I can never get seem to get it's very elusive first-class she's sitting over here but she just doesn't want to say anything at this point she's being a little shy a little bit about Sal he's flying over to Venice this evening and on the 747 I think he forgot to mention that and all away last night arriving last night I was Greg and he flew over triple seven on cafe I believe it was was not correct so anyways sitting here having a fantastic meetup as I always like to say fantastic one of my words just enjoying some great company and really honored these guys came out to spend some time with me of course Greg I'm the first cast member of the apg show he's met so really a pleasure in an honor getting to meet you today I'm going to send back to your studio captain Danis out Wow yeah what was Wow was what's it Greg they couldn't remember my name thanks Greg in in his defense he had had a few beers now mind you and he was also on I mean that was you know it so it's both you know he'd been up forever how many hours and yeah I know I'm just I'm just playing I I hardly remember my own name so I don't I don't get it right so I do have to correct something so that we're above 50% yes I did say that Greg came over on a triple seven that is not correct he came over on the a350 and absolutely loved it so he is a private pilot down there in Australia in he has a 30 yeah a 30 day trip planned to fly can't remember was no 30 hour a 30 hour plane trip that he's gonna be fine with another another aircraft all over North northern northeastern part of Australia and he's actually flown the entire continent and he also likes to ride motorcycles so we had a lot to talk about and then Josh came came out and that was you know Josh came after recording we end up all spending the night together no well it's a pretty good the evening cutting up having a good time and went out for dinner family sure yes all of us spent the night together my poor wife no I'm so anyways we had it we had it we had a really good time and just enjoyed cutting up between and between all of us and it was a gentleman trip to I mean how often get in an 11 o'clock at night and don't leave inflate 15 in the morning two days later so that was just this Rockstar so you know really rested and you know I than that the flying part of it everything it's been couldn't been pretty down smooth except for the flight here too El Paso 40-minute delay for a late amount aircraft because they swapped into it and then we got here to help was very interesting hey Jeff have you ever landed on a foreign El Paso mm yeah not very often but yes yeah sitting today I mean I've been over here many times too and I think this is my first time ever waiting on runway for now runway for the basically the final approach fix is right over the Mexican in US border and it's about four I think it's four point eight miles right at four point eight miles and they want us to stay within that and in ninety heavily loaded no listen there's no way that we're not gonna cross over the Mexican border so they tried to coordinate you know that would have been an unstable approach criteria by time we brought it around so normally they would be able to get you a you know left base to final and they were trying to coordinate with Mexican authorities and they said absolutely not sake lined us back up in back foolís west in circles tickle us around the very high mountains that's under the initial approach fix on the localizer runway four and try to descend us down to the MVA which was seventy two hundred and I'm looking at the fix it's right over the mountains and it said to cross that fix it 7,500 so I told the HF control you know I'm pretty procedure that with the Torino prefer to say you know a little bit higher they weren't happy about that but they gave to us anyways and then came in on the visual to runway for Seoul over Mexican airspace apparently they own the US owns the left down one in the Mexicans Mexican authorities owns the right down it's very interesting so it was all kind of elbows and and can't say the word publicly anyways um area is very busy but josh is flying it and he did a great job excellent well josh announced to your question Dana how often do you get 48 hour layover z' all the time eh all the time I expected that response but the long-haul flying world is that's normal actually yeah but Nick how many time zones do you have to travel through and how many how much of that is red-eye flowing and you know backside of the body clock flying it's fine you know not unless you're so like so [Laughter] alright to know me there you go and now we wish we hadn't now I'm just gonna let's see anything else before we move on to what we're I was hoping by now stuff would have joined us but we're just gonna have you get caught up with Josh for me oh well well we don't have like a 10 hour show to here what now so what what have you been up to Josh since the last show I can go ahead and start a little dissertation here for you in a second okay now unfortunately I got stuck on a four day with this guy nobody seems to be going pretty well so far yeah watch out every time and Philly never turn your back on them I can say that anyway well that's I'm glad that you had a chance to kind of join in with Dana today it's always nice to see fellow crew members I appreciate that yeah hope you enjoy hanging out with us the next one and a half hours I think we have about that much left just under that right now anyway as I said when we see Steph join the the green room and join us here in the video we'll get all caught up with her because I know she's been busy as well so without further ado I think it's now time for us to talk about coffee and the coffee fund Johnny how much more coffee so bang I love coffee I love tea I love the apg community coffee and tea and the Java and me a cut cut cut cut cut yes the Java jive we sing that for I do and Jeff Smith does to indicate it's time for us to talk about the coffee fund which is your way dear listener to help us financially via the coffee fund become part of the coffee bar Club the coffee fund cadre whatever you want to call it just a bunch of great people who send in money to help us offset some of our costs since the last episode using the coffee fund classic method we have big nur Jason Koontz Randy Ward John Clem Alastair care and masseuse Kareem and by the way Randy actually sent he's a recurring contributor but he sent in a special Merry Christmas Happy New Year message to us and an extra little bit of money so thank you very much Randy I think he's on vacation somewhere in Europe right now so I hope you're having a great time and thank you very much also since the last episode we we do not have any new producers or patrons via patreon comm but that's another way to do it so to learn more about how you can become a patron of the show head over to airline pilot slash coffee you'll be glad you did we will too incoming message all right that means it's time for our feedback and let's start off with gentleman from New Zealand and you sent us some audio feedback hello captain Jeff captain Dana the retired captain Nick and dr. Steph and the lovely Liz it's Glenn hear my voice by now just really think on Facebook by a friend of mine cool JP Santiago he's talking about the 737-700 eyebrow windows no no you sit on me on the Mad Dog Lisa live eyebrow windows so probably plug them back in 2005 they come up with their a retrofit on the aircraft to plug the eyebrow windows and apparently it saves the airlines some 200 man-hours a year of maintenance so I'm surprised that Tim Acme hasn't done the same thing plugged the eyebrows I mean you know they are late learn to waste the time I mean the idea they were designed before the days of tea cast so I just wondered well I suppose I know there's only a few years left a bit of yeah the good old Mad Dog but I'm surprised they still have eyebrow windows anyway Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone and see you and looking forward the next podcast and that's the Glen out well I don't know about you glam but I do pluck my eyebrows on occasion yeah all those girly Magda pilots are gonna go around plucking their eyebrows it's for sure okay what a lot of us are on the same freak here the same page so we and I've kind of find it hard to believe that you save 200 man-hours per eyebrow window I'm not sure exactly how that is figured not a lot of things happen to those highbrow windows on on the Mad Dog that I know I've never heard of one cracking or having to be replaced you Dana yeah well Jack just said I've got like 600 screws on every window and our plane – mm-hmm it seems like for the bounty on it yeah but even so I painted over what kind of man yeah I don't know I'm old-school I like having those windows and be able to see the airport and flying visual approaches myself that throw those windows above your head to see the airport yeah which way are you yeah no I use the when I'm turning right – oh never mind I know you guys never look out windows and those that I oh it's all we do yeah I do know that the md-95 otherwise known as the boeing 717 about the first half of the run actually had the eyebrow windows in them and then at some point they they just stopped manufacturing them with the eyebrow windows like you've probably seen that before right Dana for the yeah yeah some of them have them and some don't yes some do sometimes really can it sometimes do I'm Jen I was doing yep exactly but yeah I don't I don't know if it'd be worth the hassle of plugging those things up especially now as you mentioned Glen the fact that the airplane is scheduled to be retired in the next couple of couple of years so it's probably not worth the cost so anyway I guess maybe I'm one of the only pilots out there that actually uses those things yeah I guess I'll be retired well so I I don't spend more time plugging that thing up with something to block the Sun beating down on my head yeah that's another problem with it is the fact that there's a lot of stuff stuffed in there now that renders them useless so oh well I guess soon I'll be out there on my rocking chair out front telling the kids to get off my lawn alright item number two Chris sent us em feedback and it has something to do with electric beavers whoo mm-hmm shockingly good I don't know did I put that in there or did somebody else I don't know here are some info on electric working in planes for you still a long way to go and it says low and energy to weight ratio in terms of net calorie calorific value okay caliber calorific value n CV I like to call it as well as a relatively short lifespan makes batteries unsuitable beyond a given application while fossil fuel delivers an N CV of 12,000 watt hours per kilogram a manganese type lithium-ion battery offers 120 so 12,000 versus 120 which is 100 times less per weight even at a low frequency of 25% the internal combustion engine outperforms the best battery in terms of energy to weight ratio the capacity of a battery would need to increase twentyfold before it could compete head-to-head with fossil fuel although they work they're working on it but they aren't quite there yet another limitation of battery propulsion over fossil fuel is the fuel by white while the weight diminishes as it's being consumed the battery has the same dead weight whether fully charged or empty this puts limitations on electric vehicles driving distances and would make the electric airplane impractical furthermore the combustion engine delivers full power at freezing temperatures and continues to perform well with advancing age a trait that is not achievable yet anyway with the battery a battery that is a few years old may deliver only half of the rated capacity so but as we mentioned when we were talking about the the outfit Harbor air up in British Columbia the type of flying that they do are very short segments so it seems that it could be well suited for their type of operation but as far as doing the long haul stuff I think we're a long way away from that interesting I didn't realize that in compared with the fossil fuel they were quite so inefficient but that's amazing mm-hmm didn't make some good points particularly about the weight yeah that's for sure yeah as well as fuel is consumed as we all know you know the the weight of the aircraft is lessened and performance increases etc you know it doesn't make sense to me in this though is if you think of like you knock them a plug in a particular automobile but the tesla has one of the best acceleration in the world so I mean how I don't know I don't get that because the combustion and you can't keep up and it's far more I think they're talking about the total amount of energy that can be converted from a fossil fuel compared to delivered by a battery and whilst you can make a very efficient electric motor Dana and you can suck the power out of the battery and drive the car very fast it doesn't go very far and you know that is a big disadvantage yeah it's true it's like the the cheetah vs the what's another animal the tortoise tortoise yeah there we go actually it's the rabbit and the hare or The Tortoise and the hare but what I was thinking cheetahs or you know that they can sprint really fast but they they're not distance runners they're they're not marathon big cats I don't know which one is but kind of blows my hole that's right I'm trying to think of an animal analogy as well and I can't think of it now I'm gonna say hummingbird an albatross there we go oh that's a good one and you'll have to figure that out yourself exactly how the electric hummingbird and the fuel fossil fuel albatross very good all right well thank you Chris for that a little bit of information about the NCV is that I get that right NCV or NBC a knit fella rific value yes nd CV yeah I use that term every day actually let's see somebody named Liz the same name as our producer in Toronto sent in this she said a lovely story just before Christmas yeah yeah and it's after Christmas I well now it is but it's in it was before Christmas and let's start off right away by having a picture of a of an Emirates looks like a triple 7 yeah I don't know but it's an Emirates aircraft three wheels on my bogie it's a triple 7 yeah and and and then we see that the story is entirely about a Virgin Atlantic flight attendant yeah who've never floated the triple 7 yeah so whether you're a frequent flyer or have only flown on a passenger aircraft once in your life here are five things to know about passenger planes a Virgin Atlantic flight attendant didn't hesitate to play favorites when sharing the sweet story of her favorite passengers a kind-hearted man and the elderly woman he selflessly swapped seats with so she could enjoy his first-class digs now I'm thinking that that first paragraph that I read probably had nothing to do with this article so I do apologize for that last week virgin stewardess Virgin Atlantic stewardess I should say yes more appropriate yes I don't think I would think you would need to adjust it yes because I Leah amy shared the heartwarming tale on Facebook and a post that has since gone viral with over 4100 likes and 1,300 shares leah has already met famous athlete supermodels and actors through her work as a flight attendant but she said these two travelers whom she identified as Jack and violet were her new favorite passengers ever according to the New Zealand Herald the two travellers spontaneously struck up an instant friendship at the unnamed airport they were traveling from when Jack decided that the octogenarian would get more out of his prime seat to the Big Apple than he would it was reported that the 88 year olds it was reportedly the 88 year olds dream to sit at the front of the plane Leigha added and the thoughtful traveller was inspired to make it come true out of the kindness of his own heart after boarding Jat traded his upper class cabin virgins equivalent of the traditional first-class section for violets economy seat which was situated directly next to the toilets but Jack reportedly kept the good deed quiet Jack sat on the front and the row of seats directly next to the economy toilets and never made a peep or asked for anything the rest of the flight Leigha detailed no fuss no attention literally did not did it out of the kindness of his heart no one asked him to the flight attendant detailed the 88 year old woman often travels to New York to visit her daughter and the recent trip was in first in a long while due to a knee replacement when flying across the pond violets dream has always been to sit up at the front of the aircraft and Jack generously made it come true you should have seen her face when I tucked her in her bed after supper Leah remembered though the octogenarian didn't provide the stewardess with a phone number or email to share the photos taking taken of her on the special flight Leah said she planned to forward the memorable pictures in the mail and shared them on social media in the meantime Facebook users meanwhile were quick to praise Jack as a true gentleman and a wonderful guy and so there you go been that nice a nice heartwarming story yeah and even Richard who used to own the airline and kind of still does said that he was so inspired by the story that he was going to carry it forward by offering complimentary upgrades to most of their seasoned customers onboard all their flights from that day which was Christmas Eve until the 1st of January so actually the most seasoned customers who got to be the oldest possibly or have a lot of salt in your hair yes oh boy another way to to measure seasoning levels and now I have a question Liz you're in the background here why would why would this have a picture of Emirates airplane the beginning of this thing I don't think this can answer that well we we kind of just talked about that already at the very beginning that there was a journalist that doesn't really pay attention ah those kind of things I guess I miss that pilot no where were you right there oh he's on a different planet okay well you know it's because Mike you mention us skyping a little bit so I do have to say that's a good excuse okay Adam for Tim g'day dr. Steph captains Jeff Dana and Nick this is formerly Acme express crew scheduling supervisor Tim now regular dispatcher for let's call it Acme connections sadly I fell a bit behind in the show with my studies for initial well today I passed my comp check and I got signed off which means I can fall back into the syndrome and of course he's talking about the ABG syndrome all that brings me to the topic I wanted to see how the crew felt about recently a major carrier in the u.s. created a new airplane the CRJ 550 which is simply a crj700 with fewer seats and recertification to scope as a lighter aircraft there have been there have now been rumors that more of these types of conversions are being considered by the major US carriers what I wonder is what the reaction of the mainline crews is to these attempts – for lack of a better word jam airplanes into scope also I'm curious if any of the crew have written as a passenger on one of these new CRJ 550's as I've heard mixed thoughts on both the service offered and the comfort of the new cabin and given that I don't that much that I don't that much of these questions is for captain okay and given that I don't think that much of these questions are for captain Nick I'll just say I love the plane tails and congrats to your countrymen Lewis Hamilton on his f1 world drivers championship mm-hmm yeah that's his sixth good job Lewis yes quite a driver so I'll tell you one thing that I've always avoided while doing the well first the Catholic pilot podcast and now the airline pilot guys show is I don't like to delve into areas of religion politics and Union versus company kind of issues like scope so I think that we'll just kind of set that aside because this is not the show for that but we can try to answer the question regarding have we been on this airplane or you know do we know much about it and I have not the only one that I think may have in our community is Steve and I beat I think I remember him tweeting about that or there was some kind of conversation and the social means going on I think a few days ago regarding it but I'm not sure he's actually been on one or not but I believe it's United Express is the outfit that's running these things now right there United Airlines connection carrier not forget I'm not sure which one but it's not making mine that's operating these things as far as I know well explain to me and those of us who aren't familiar with the American way of doing things Jeff but what does it mean when you're recertifying an aircraft to fit into the scope of a lighter aircraft or into scope oh you're gonna force me to do it aren't you well I don't understand what it means what it means is in the contract in union contracts and most most carriers pilot union contract or pilot contracts or union negotiated things and so we have a pilot working agreement and there are there's a section and everybody's contract called scope and what that does is it tries to control in a certain way the amount of flying that is performed by carriers that look and feel and smell just like the mainline but they're not the fee for departure airlines the connection carriers the regional airlines whatever you want to call them they go by a bunch of different names and so one of the things will place in a contract is that you can only operate this type of airplane with this many seats and nothing more than that and that in a certain way attempts to force more of the flying for the for carrying more passengers and different segments to them the mainline carrier because after all the contract for the pilots are for the mainline airline so it's to keep the company from having a huge number of the flying going away to these companies that are not technically the mainline carrier so I don't know that's my best stab at an explanation of scope there's more to scope than than just that but in this case that's what these are – I've got an idea now things yeah and it's really not the first time it has happened either Northwest Airlink back when they first started one crj200 they ran it under 44 C configuration and I know they did something similar with the Embraer 175 due to the scope I think it was United because either United or Northwest had with the Max laning weight of the aircraft so they just certified at a lower weight right even though the performance of the aircraft could be at a higher max weight they just recertified it so that this is the max weight and so it fell within the contract provisions in a sa do the same thing that we had 40 50 seat aircraft that had 44 seats on so you know it's just it's just a way of you know he said he want to leave it alone we just can't leave it alone so that's good yeah that's without getting into all the Stickley details and that kind of thing as yes this is more of the kind of conversation you'd have at the bar you know you know having a few beers with friends talking about this kind of thing I I believe any work work work work work oh I see some you see green room Wow who could it be looks like we have from her lakeside home in the Carolina is a dr. skydiver marathon runners strength training junkie IPA connoisseur and celebration outcomes commercial multi-engine instrument-rated pilot doctor staff hey guys I made it finally sorry for my tardiness today we knew that was gonna happen anyway cuz it's Monday and Monday is not a good day for me but it works for everyone else so we'll just make it work so glad to see you glad glad to be joining the conversation at the bar with a drink and getting into the weeds vote [Laughter] the weeds is that why everyone's here though you said that I'm like no that's kind of why everyone's listening they want to know about this my new show stuff that would be you think would just be boring but yeah maybe it is ah to me it is so that's cuz it's your job yeah so stuff did have a nice Christmas holiday I did it was very nice weather here in the southeastern United States on Christmas Day didn't have any really big plans because I was the only day I had off of work the entire week was just Christmas Day we're um work work work yeah it's busy time of year for us so took a quick trip up to Great Smoky Mountains National Park a couple hours drive away took the dogs did a little bit of walking around on some very easy trails and then kind of just turned around and came back but there's a nice day for it too and then yeah this past weekend every year usually on New Year's Day there's a big extended family get-together in the Chicago area with all my aunts and uncles and cousins and it's all their extended family now – it's a ton of people I almost need name tags anymore cuz I'm like the great foosball this is the great foosball tournament yes you're teamed with this year yeah the Sierra was tuned with Linda I should know who she's actually related to there but forget she's an extended and we made it through the first round we took out some up some some favorites in the first round and then we were decisively defeated in the second round by the a team that went on to the finals and then they it was a good final match actually it was very very close it was very exciting are you cheating oh there's always some cheating there's always someone spinning them like in the darn thing come on exactly lose anyway not cheating you're not trying yeah but it was it was good fantasy family and easy in and out of O'Hare so that was that was good I only spent a few minutes in the penalty box on the way in for being early but that's good excellent and many years yeah gee I get anything fun for Christmas not really yeah well actually you know what one of the best is my dad this will be a callback to earlier in the year he got me a 50 states journal so I can go back in and write all my notes about actually the states haven't been to in a long time I the ones that are gonna be hard to fill in and an atlas of sakura so all the odd nooks and crannies of the world so yeah good gifts I liked it you know what we didn't talk about is any of our plans for New Year's because that is actually New Year's Eve is tomorrow as we're now recording the show by the time you're listening to this however it'll probably be past New Year's Eve and New Year's Day but so Happy New Year Happy New Year yeah Dana you having a party at your place I actually the neighborhood because I am working one of the neighbors picked up the slack and we're having a hoedown lowdown in drunk down it's gonna be in my year my in-laws actually should just about be pulling in to the homestead right now driving in from Boston in their back down to Florida for their winter solstice and they they will be joining us is they like to and I have a have a really fun time with them so excellent I know Nick you mentioned that you don't really do much for New Year's and no I deliver a bit to my son in London on New Year's Day so I shall be staying up late I'll have a palaver beer and note in a bottle of champagne or something properly that'll be it yeah I'll text you at midnight because I'm not saying that you're midnight yes the two perils around you might just be getting up anyway so yeah yeah um Steph any plans I don't know yet yeah I don't either yeah minor but the thing is always kind of hard for me and our family is the fact that our youngest that's her birthday as New Year's Eve it's not really sure exactly what the the plans have not yet fallen in place yet we're not sure what's going on so yeah mine are dependent on a lot of things also I only have Wednesday off so thanks yeah it makes it difficult yeah it's okay to do something tomorrow night but yeah you know what to do anything we should probably then just wait until the next episode then we can talk about whether we did have a great New Year celebration or not or not so mine mine's already gonna be awesome I can tell you yeah well okay there we go we're so happy for you yes we are very can you tell hey you know who listen I get to excel great one holiday at least right right around the same year everybody else is enjoying it I was working I'm not working for change where you tell me Danna when is the Jewish New Year a good question sometime in September October you know I'm not sure truly practicing Jewish true Jew I'm not you Jew news weather whether we do or do not have a wonderful New Year's celebration I can tell you that we are going some of us are going to have a nice celebration with some very special folks who are also in the aviation podcasting space the PT UK plane talking UK they are celebrating their 300th episode coming up in about what 10 days 11 days something like that yep 300 on the 11th on the 11th yes Saturday the 11th of January is the 300th episode celebration of the PT UK and I'm planning on being there and I know that Nick you're going to be there as well yeah I booked a hotel room already it'll be in the Renaissance Marriott hotel I just on the north side of Heathrow Airport do you have one of the rooms with the looking out looking or overlooking the runways and so I've seen enough at those things you know what you can join me for a shuttle in my room and you can look out the window at the airplanes your sight guys if you'll buy the coat tails up go anyway okay excellent all right expected I may wait and see yeah I'm over as well all right oh well that'll be great oh who knows great may be exactly what's gonna happen here but if you do make sure you bring a mic according to the works yes yeah well alright I think that now might be a good time because my producer is telling me we're at the to you to our mark approximately of the show where we do and this installment of the old pilots plane tails getcha handkerchiefs ready Oh No thank you yeah the old pilots plane tails a life of dieter Dengler it was the 20th of July 1966 and US Air Force colonel Eugene Dietrich saw a lone figure waving to him from a clearing below he was flying on a mission against the vehicon over Laos and he continued on for a while before deciding to turn back he was over hostile terrain in his spat the nickname for the Douglas a-1 skyraider that he flew so why on earth would someone try to attract his attention he found the spot again and flying lower this time he saw an emaciated man in rags desperately signaling to him beside him were the letters SOS spelt out with rocks he reported his sighting but was told to carry on with his mission at the sight of this man pleading with him not to leave was so compelling on his own initiative he ordered two rescue helicopters to be scrambled when the man was winched out he could hardly be heard but he whispered I'm an American please take me home the man was dieter Dengler it had been 28 years earlier that dita had been born in the small German town of Ville Berg in the Black Forest he didn't know his father since he had been drafted into the German army and killed on the Eastern Front during the first world war he was close to his family his grandparents mother and brothers particularly after his grandfather Hermann had refused to vote for Adolf Hitler and was subsequently paraded around town with a plaque around his neck to be spat on by the inhabitants he was then sent to our mine to labour breaking rocks for a year Peter grew up in extreme poverty and was apprenticed to a blacksmith who beat him regularly something he said that taught him to be tough and self-reliant it was watching the Allied fighters during the Second World War particularly one that flashed past his window guns blazing that planted the seed for dieter's desire to become a pilot it seemed an impossible dream for an impoverished kid in Germany that he had spotted an advert in an American magazine asking for young men to volunteer for service a family friend agreed to sponsor him and he was taught English by a retired firm of general but dieter lacked money for the passage in his spare time he scavenged metal from dumps and sold it until he could afford a ticket in Hamburg waiting for the ship to sail he survived on the streets with no spare money for food and then in Manhattan he did the same until he could find a recruiter who would take him seriously finally he was taken into the airforce he spent his first couple of years doing little more than peeling potatoes before he was sent to the motor pool was a mechanic and then on to become a gunsmith although he passed his tests for an aviation cadet ship he was told that only college graduates would be accepted and then his enlistment was up and he was back on the streets he worked in a bakery and then managed to enroll in the San Francisco City College where he studied aeronautics after two years of unbelievably hard work he applied to the Navy aviation cadet program and was accepted on his first flight he knew that air sickness might lead him to being washed out as the instructor through the little trainer around eater knew he was going to be sick so he vomited into his flying boot and then put it back on this instructor could smell something but with no evidence tito was allowed to continue after months of training he finally graduated with his wings and was over to be sent for training as an attack pilot on Skyraiders and then on to VA 145 in 1965 his squadron joined USS Ranger and after sailing to the coast of Vietnam he was moved to Yankee station for operations against North Vietnam weapons and military materiel were being transported to the Viet Cong forces through Laos and the Communists were ramping up their infiltration along the Ho Chi Minh Trail in February 1966 Dengler was engaged on what were then classified missions to bomb the trail in an attempt to halt the flow of supplies it was dangerous work his skipper had taken up the first flight and returned with several panels in his wing shot out other pilots had already been shot down heavily loaded with bombs and fuel DITA followed the other three in his formation Northwest until they crossed the coast into Vietnam the weather was bad with monsoon rains pouring down and he had to tighten his position up until he was wingtip to wingtip just to see his leader the weather was so bad they were forced to turn away from their primary target so they climbed up in the clear air and set course for the alternative in Laos they flew across Vietnam and then half way over Laos and eventually the heavy clouds dropped away and the weather improved DITA could now see the dense foliage below there was an occasional row of sharp white looking cliffs rising at least 2,000 feet into the air but the rest was just as expected dark impenetrable jungle the air looked dry and tinged yellow from crops burning below after nearly two and a half hours airborne they neared the target and Dengler put his master on switch to live the leader cold rolling in and he tried to find the road junction beside the anti air gun emplacements that were their target he saw his leaders bombs explode and he rolled into a dye from 9,000 feet to attack the same spot just his he inverted to pull down his sky radar lurched as it was hit and then he needed both hands on the stick to keep control but he continued to take aim whilst yelling at the top of his voice the aircraft jumped as the weight of the bonds disappeared and as he pulled hard to bring his nose up to more blinding explosions through the aircraft out of control with his propeller slowing and the noise of his engine dying away he decided to abandon the sky Raider but with more explosions around him he changed his mind and would ride the machine down to a crash landing seeing a long Ridge dita thought that if he could make it over he would be able to land in the valley beyond jumping was now impossible he was too low he was also too low to get over the ridge but then he jettisoned his fuel tanks and the sky Raider ballooned up over the trees and he just made it but in front wasn't the clear valley he hoped for just more jungle apart from a small clearing and a few huts he aimed for the little patch of ground but he had too much speed and it looked very short trying to get down he hit a large tree and the wounded aircraft can't wheeled into the ground he was thrown around in the cockpit as the aircraft tumbled on his helmet was wrenched off with the force of the crash and he could smell oil and petrol from the burst tanks then in a blur he watched the entire tail section of his sky Raider tumble by screaming he was tossed about through endless grinding and tearing until abruptly the world went quiet not a sound could be heard confused dazed and hanging upside down he released his straps and crawled out of the wreckage stumbling like a drunk to the edge of the clearing he had survived for two days he lived on the run in the jungle strapping his injured left leg with bamboo before he was found by the local petite Lao the Laotian equivalent of the Communist Viet Cong they brutalized him and marched him through the jungle at night he was tied spread-eagled on the ground to force takes to stop him escaping by the morning his face was so swollen from mosquito bites that he couldn't see he took an opportunity to try to escape but was soon recaptured this was when the torture began they hung him upside down by his ankles and broke a nest of biting ants over his face the pain of the bites was so bad he lost consciousness at night they suspended him in a freezing well so that if sleep came he would drop into the water and would wake choking and other times he was dragged by water buffalo through villages his guards laughing and the local spitting and throwing excrement at him tiny wedges of bamboo were inserted under his fingernails and into incisions on his body to grow and fester they were always thinking of something new to do to me dengler recalled one guy made our rope torniquet around his upper arm he twisted and twisted until the nerves ground against bone dangled his hand became completely unusable for months bloodied and broken he was told to sign a document condemning America for their part in the conflict that he refused so the torture intensified finally Dengler arrived at his destination a prisoner of war camp he had been looking forward to it hoping to see other pilots but what he saw horrified him the first one who came out was carrying his intestines around in his hands there were six other captives four Thais who captured whilst flying for air America and two fellow Americans one had no teeth played by awful infections he begged the others to knock him out with a rock then use an old rusty nail to release the pass from his gums the others had been there for over two years and as Dengler looked at them he realized that he had to escape after a while the food began to run out and they were given just a single handful of rice to share whilst the guards would stalk deer and when they shot one they pulled the grass out of the animal's stomach for the prisoners to eat and kept the meat for themselves the prisoners only treats were snakes they occasionally caught in the latrine or the rats that lived under their Hut which they sometimes speared with sharpened bamboo nights brought their own misery the men were handcuffed together and shackled to medieval-style foot blocks amongst their other ailments they suffered chronic dysentery and had to lie in their own excrement until the morning whilst he was their angler witnessed his captors behead an American Navy pilot and execute six wounded Marines after several months food became so scarce that even the guards began to suffer the prisoner has overheard them saying that they wanted to return to their own villages to cover their abandonment of the camp they were going to shoot the prisoners and pretend that they had tried to escape and the others realized that they would have to fight for their survival and they began planning an escape they built a little model of the camp and memorized the guards movement they knew that more petite Lao troops for about a three hour march away and they rarely had visitors so the plan was to grab weapons and take over the camp then they would signal to the c-130 flare ship that frequently flew overhead at night they loosened the posts of the heart by mixing the earthly urine to make the ground soft and they quietly dug a hole under the fence which they covered with foliage their plan was to use the guards mealtime to creep out and grab their rifles when they put them down to get their food the day before their attempt dieter was given a severe beating for stealing the husk of a corn cob that had been thrown to a young peak to eat even though it was covered in excrement dieter was dragged out of the heart and beaten with a rifle but by one of the guards and then all the others joined in the next day the plan was put into action but they had to abort the attempt when two guards unexpectedly failed to turn up at the kitchen the following day they tried again it was do or die either by gunshot or starvation dieter had learned how to undo the handcuffs and released everyone he was the first out of the compound crawling under the fence and he gathered the guns to arm two of the thais who followed him then with the u.s. m1 rifle in his hands he made for the guard hut where they knew they kept a Thompson submachine gun they didn't want to fire any weapon since the sound would travel down the valley and alert the villages there the next instant the guards woke up to what was going on and rushed at the prisoners one fired at dieter and the round buzzed past his face but he squeezed the trigger of the m1 and dropped him with one shot then a machete-wielding guard was nearly upon him but the prisoners kept their head killing them as they approached the guard who had beaten DITA got to within a few feet and then DITA fired point-blank at his bare chest the blasts blow a hole in his body and threw him back several feet the rest of the patellar guards ran for the edge of the clearing they shot some but others got away dieter realize that their plan must change and they would have to try to escape through the jungle they gathered what they could but the other prisoners had already gone with the best supplies Peter and another American Duane Martin limped off into the jungle soon their feet were white and mangled from stumbling through the thick undergrowth but eventually they found a fast flowing river after building a crude raft they floated downstream traversing ferocious Rapids by night they tied themselves to trees but by morning they would be covered in mud and hundreds of leeches eventually they came across a village and crawled in pleading for food within seconds Duane Martin had been struck down by a machete and beheaded eater summoned his strength and rushed at the villager who ran away dieter escaped and continued his torturous journey these were his darkest hours little more than a walking skeleton after weeks on the run he floated in and out of consciousness days later on July the 20th 1966 Dengler heard that American aircraft overhead he summed up his last reserves of strength and waved the parachute from an old flare that had picked up in the jungle to attract the pilots attention he had been on the run for 23 days and of the seven who escaped he was the sole survivor when the helicopter rescued him he was taken straight to the hospital in Danang doctors said he might have only survived for a few more hours he weighed a mere 98 pounds it's a little over 44 kilos the Air Force and the Navy argued over who should be responsible for him but eventually he was sprung from the hospital by a band of fellow Airmen and taken back to his ship when he arrived on board dieter couldn't stand and yet a friend said he had the biggest smile on his face and tears of joy I'm not sure how anyone ever recovers from an ordeal like that at night Dida was tormented by awful terrors and had to be tied to his bed in the end his friends put him to sleep in a cockpit surrounded by pillows it was the only place he felt safe he recovered physically but never truly put the ordeal completely behind him he said men are often haunted by the things that happened to them in life especially in war their lives come to be normal but they are not on returning to the States dieter settled in San Francisco he flew for a while with TWA and then as a civilian test pilot and although he took early retirement he continued to fly his beautifully restored Cessna 195 in 2000 he was diagnosed with ALS an incurable neurological disorder a man who is no stranger to death and had been awarded the Navy Cross for valor in combat he rolled his wheelchair from his house down to the driveway of the nearby fire station and at the age of 62 shot himself he was buried in the Arlington National Cemetery with full military honors a navy guard was present and a formation of navy Tomcats over flew his pupil dieter Dengler was finally at rest wow what a story there are some tales which you don't really need to amplify it the tale says absolutely everything and that I think is something that most of us will find hard to imagine but kind of understand it must have been appalling but Dengler was very brave and very capable and honorable and fiercely a fierce survivor to get through all of that his childhood is his fierce determination to become a pilot and then survive that amazing escape so you know his life was full of tragedy I'm sure there were bright spots that made him you know happy to be alive and I think those months in captivity were just probably too much for him at the end yeah thank you you know how how can you possibly imagine what what he went through especially is his time as a captive of the Vietnamese yeah it's beyond our understanding and scope nowadays when we get ticked off about third world problems sorry first world problems you've realized the enormity of some things that people have put up with in the past and it puts everything kind of back into perspective yeah yeah because they have to wait yeah mm-hmm I found that a very hard story to tell actually it took me quite a few takes you know I kept choking up that was written there very very touching him mean it's it's yeah Wow I'm kind of speechless okay well as you said sometimes less is more yep so I think we should move on then and continue with our feedback and the next one we have in the folder is number five from Teresa yeah English please she says hey APG crew let's see no I'm not sure this is Dana's friend yes Oh beautifully Dana okay you have access to number five I sure do I have five I'm just hoping that my on skype too bad here so all right can hear you now okay okay hey a PG crew as I can hear her voice in like a my mind during the 404 error episode my showing of an angry face while listening to it live was mostly different that most definitely in Eric too with a screen you know a smiley with a tongue sticking out and no was not angry with my good friend captain Dana either ha while I was listening to you live I was running errands and threw my phone in my purse which must have accidentally knocked up against something knocked up I think not to reason right the phone yes anyway I also work for acne in the IT department and have been listening for you for quite some time now oh because of me it's amazing to hear your side of things so please keep up the great work in giving the rest of us a different perspective on all things aviation well I hope for at least 50% well that was me adding that by the way while I was at dinner with captain Dee and his lovely bride later on that evening which was a great was great fun as always we got talking about international flights and potential language barriers between the pilots in the air traffic controllers whenever my husband and I have a few days off we checked the flight loads and take off with whatever wherever wherever we can't find with seats whatever plane and let me say that Josh you should do something about the alcohol there's Heidi my husband I have a few days off we check the flight loads and take off on what ever plane we can find with seats anyway I thought let's just say anyways anyways I thought English was the universal language spoken throughout the world so I just had to google it I'm not sure how accurate the source is but here's what I found on the topic in 1951 when the international air travel really started to take off the ICAO International Civil Aviation Organization recommended that English be the standard language for aviation communications why English at this time the US UK manufactured operate the majority of the world's aircraft native Anglophones consider yourself lucky however do pilots and controllers speak English only on the radio nope ICAO aviation English is a recommendation not law also although English is common we often hear other languages on radio ATC controllers in the Canadian province at kbecque are famous for speaking both French and English a friendly properly accent Bonjour Montreal Center I did do that right Liz Bonjour ma yell Center she's from Toronto she wouldn't know she had some Canada though so she probably could do a she can probably do better a like in I thought it was Mario long as you want yell oh thank you and I went when checking and will let you know how you prefer your French in the interest of aviation safety I'm sorry exceed carry on I'm sorry and hear what you said oh ok here we go it's easy to understand the English in different countries no let me say again is it easy to understand the English in different countries it's challenging but everyone tries to follow like chaos script to minimize problems occasionally a heavy accent our fast talker will throw a wrench in communications they have obviously talked to New York center a simple request of saying again or speak slower will usually help clear up this confusion except in New York Center exactly sometimes even we have trouble really fast why do they never slow down it so anyways speak slower you usually clear up the confusion even a this broadcast above following follows the script the information is presented in the same order at every International Airport like cruise know what to listen to listen for and can pick out the important information the more you know enjoy and I hope to get chance to meet the rest of the crew at some point sincerely Theresa be the nerd in IIT reads abate the nerd and IT quick point there all that came from they started talking about yours we found on the yep came from Aero Savi's wonderful blog Ken Hoch if you're not already following him on Twitter or his blog Aero savvy comm he has all kinds of great information so please check out ken hoaxes wonderful stuff yes it was wondering if that was a reliable source and we can all hear say yes yes 100% source of information we don't we all know ken great blog era savvy eh eh eh oh savvy yeah and you know we've talked about it many times on the show the communication so important in fact a couple of the accidents that Nick and I were covering in news dealt with communication inter cockpit communication but inside the cockpit outside the cockpit communication is also just as if not more important important so that's why a lot of us especially as native English speakers kind of are not exactly thrilled when we go to places and they're communicating on radio frequencies in a language that we don't understand and as Ken says you know it's not it's not law it's a recommendation we think it's a good recommendation that everybody be on the same page so we can hear what everybody else is saying so it goes it goes both ways – though you know I think it's probably more of a frustration here in the United States where everyone is used to speaking English all the time and then you get cruising from the country where English is not their first language and there's a lot of non-standard phraseology that happens sometimes and that can be just as confusing so I agree yeah I think I think I think all of us agree with you stuff that we need to be careful about not getting into slang and casual communicates trying to make it as professional as we can because we do have other people or people from other countries English is not their native language and when we start throwing that crap at them it's hard for them to understand I can imagine they're all trying to figure out what's good day good day yeah because we we all know that's like Nick's want to mix what's with pet peeves pet peeves yeah that's Epis yeah everybody adds extra stuff to the broadcast like see yeah what's that yeah but that I mean I don't like it either I'm thinking that they probably understand that that's some kind of a salutation or something at the end of a conversation it's just the stuff that it's non-standard like instead of clear for takeoff on the roll here we go you know that kind of stuff is that doesn't contribute to situational awareness right when it should yes yes yeah well so very interesting Theresa and yeah your explanation for throwing the phone in the purse and it accidentally sending that emoji I believe it I believe it sir okay second I've ever seen Atlanta long enough to meet up with anybody yeah sounds like she's a traveler Texas analyst shock greetings captain Jeff nay PG crew hope all of you had a good Christmas and Happy New Year still enjoying the sixth day of Christmas is that right sixth day I think it is anyway I had a chance to I had chance find I had a chance find on the interwebs find maybe yeah I don't know yeah enter your own letter or word coming across this story of a guy who was on a flight and knowing there was going to be a launch while they were in the air picked a seat and got a shot of the new Boeing Star liner as it launched wasn't a very successful launch the photo seemed a bit blurry to me but it's still pretty good or pretty cool excuse me so now I ask you in your flying careers have you found yourself oh by the way we'll put a link to this in the show notes you can see a beautiful picture they must have some nice Photoshop or some some photo editing software work on you may not have had to do too much to that I mean based on the time of day and their altitude and I mean they probably did a little bit of sweet old yeah there may be some photoshopping here but I had a friend of mine that was flying a night freight I took an actual photograph at the same time nice nice dawn launch so if there photo looks better than mine if I can get that pointing the right direction did you find us oh you I saw that wall because I'm gonna commute to work but I'd wait to take a picture until I stopped huh that's right actress well you know what III have no problem with enhancement that's what she said okay so I think you were reading the article I was I was reading this article it's not sure at what point I stopped reading the article and well you're read okay I gotcha so now I ask you in your flying careers have you found yourselves in visual range of the Cape well a launch was occurring take care of best wishes in the coming year this is Texas analyst Jacques signing off and I have not had the fortune of being at the right place at the right time in my flying career yet I always hope that I'll be flying around the Florida peninsula at the time that launches you know starting off the the Cape but I've not been you know as I said fortunate enough to see that myself I think you're gonna have more luck if you're somewhere between North Korea and Japan on you there you go why are there very often though either so what's going over there Jeff I mean wouldn't be able to speak the language and navigate anything yeah if we retired English we'd be in big trouble anyway if we had our mad dog over there yeah a major wrong turn at some point that's so judgest that a map shift yeah huge shift and somehow great fuel efficiency anyway so beautiful picture we'll put that in the show notes and Steph did you actually wasn't moving like really quickly through the sky or was it kind of in slow mo or somewhere in between yeah I mean it you know it's it's from my perspective anyway because I'm so far away from distance wise I don't how many miles that is from Cape Canaveral to me but as a way so I think it actually gives the sense that it's probably moving slower than it actually is though I mean the the contrail to stuck around for a really long time I mean the chem drills the chemtrails yeah let's go to the next level right there yeah hope everybody was wearing their special masks to keep from inhaling that stuff yes and moving on to Captain Steve let's see so it's an article that he's given us a link to innovative taxi bot which is a hybrid electric aircraft tractor now used in real Lufthansa flight operations of Frankfurt Airport course this article was back in 2015 he goes yeah I know the article is a bit old but my question is then what the taxi bot got the plane to the runway and then how does it get back to the gate is this unmanned tug going to drive itself back to the gate what about all the other taxi BOTS from all the other planes now there's a herd of these things making the trips back to the terminal after each Bank of flights depart gonna have to keep the eyes open well actually doing a little bit more research about these taxi BOTS this is the company that ta x ib OT the brand name these you can look at it at the thing and it's basically a super tug we are used to seeing those at major airports around the world and guess what these taxi bots are not autonomous bots or even semi autonomous guess what they are manned bots so each video that I was able to find on the Internet there were two people in the cab of this super tug like machine the only thing that was different about what we are used to seeing in our present world in airports that don't have these taxi BOTS is the fact that this super tug device once the nosewheel is in position the pilots can activate their steering tillers which actually turns the nose wheel and then that translates into the tug actually moving so you can basically the pilot is in control of the tub all the way out to the era to the end of the runway and then at the point where it releases moves out of the way well then these people that are in the tug drive it back to the ramp and as we've mentioned many times on the show before I'm not sure that it's as a is efficient as they make it out to be because especially these new generation engines these pure power the geared turbofan engines take quite a while to start several minutes yeah many many minutes like two three times longer minimum then a regular non geared turbofan engine does and it requires a certain amount of time for everything to warm up and everything else I'm not sure whether or not the these things are gonna make that big of an impact and there are systems out there that are different than the taxi bus systems there's a couple that they mentioned in this article wheel tug is one and I can't think of the name at the other one where they one is actually a system that is built into the airplane itself and it's actually part of the nosewheel a system and that's the wheel tug I believe and so that stays with the airplane the whole time so there's no tug required at all and the problem with that system or the downside of that system is the fact that it adds a lot of extra weight and so you have to kind of consider that when you're deciding whether or not to use this kind of system the other system I can't think of the name maybe you can remember Steff is one that's actually mattered on the main landing gear but again it has the same drawback of the wheel but are the wheels there's another one that we talked about recently too that was later actually built into the yeah an Oklahoma taxiways I don't know the name or whatever but yeah anything odd it was just a idea for it but that might be a that might be more viable although the infrastructure needs to be radically it's a lot of interest because it's all ground and everything else so I like the system where they actually use to launch the jet engines on the aircraft there too actually push the airplane forward and then they just freewheel out at the end of the runway that's family yeah it doesn't use much fuel so long as is known in the way so I think the biggest problem is just queues at the the threshold of the runway getting people on it's long queues of aircraft if we could get that process shortened we wouldn't need any of this fancy technology and have you seen like with the super tugs how long it takes them to actually made up to the airplane and then disconnect and everything it's not like it just goes and they're out of there driving back to the ramp it takes quite a bit of time for all that – it's a long mating process yeah long mating process which I enjoy that's well your age is probably the best oh I would say something so bad I'm glad you didn't make editing post podcast editing so much easier Dana yes I'm trying to be kind and gentle kind and gentle hmm that's important in many aspects of our lives okay Larry sent us a cartoon oh yeah the old geezer from Tulsa that's where I'll say that you say that just as lovingly as possible Larry yeah actually he he says that's not old geezer it's just geezer oh jeez sorry sorry okay um do I read the cartoon I guess I was best to see it in in its graphic presentation by clicking on the link in the show notes but here I'll do my best thanks for booking your flight on Acme Airlines can we do anything else for you yes one question are there any nuns on the flight I have no way of knowing that sir but why does it matter well I figure it's a forgiving that nuns are immortal I believe nuns died sir say what I need to go now sir wait wait you share I'm bored okay see cuz share is immortal umm seems to be immortal okay thank you very much Larry geezer in Tulsa Oklahoma put that in the show notes so people appreciate it yeah you'll appreciate it more when you see the actual graphic presentation nine Texas charlie captains Jeff Nick Dana dr. Stefan Liz just a small musical token of appreciation for all the hard work you put in every week of the year know that everyone on the show and behind the scenes are appreciated more than you can possibly know Merry Christmas y'all Texas Charlie oh you know what I never I never got the audio for this it's on YouTube is this something that I'm gonna get a violation the copyright violation let's see what this one was yeah probably okay tell you what if you want to hear the musical it's a merry Texas Christmas Merry Christmas you all I can hear a little bit anyway yeah that's good if you want to hear it yourself so that we don't have a copyright violation look in the show notes click on it enjoy it thank you Texas Charlie for that oh you know we were talking about in earlier episodes about nicknames for airplanes and several kind of follow up nicknames were sent in from Ben Steve Colin and Mike the BAE 146 has a bunch because it's quite slow too despite its four engines here are some for the BAE 146 one for sick one aeroplane for engines need six I guess one for six gotcha yeah Quadra puffs for fuel leaks connected by an electrical fault five AP hues I think that less it's my favorite yeah five AP use four of them are on the wings the other one is mounted a fuselage of course there is also the jungle jet which is the EE 171 90 series let's see I ro s here what were those called really something really funny officer yeah are either cruise relief fos at Acme red south or second officers at marsupial Airways the former are nicknamed cruisers the latter sandwich officers hm and of course we all know the f50 is the little motor fucker you're watching the video my apologies and of course we all know the f50 is the little motor Fokker while the f100 is the big motor Fokker that's from been that test yeah shoot just rolls right off the tongue sorry 737-200 thunder guppy from the loud turbo jets Embraer product as I mentioned jungle jet Brasilia I've never heard this one lebra bro well it wouldn't it brought Brasilia brah would it be brought I don't know Dana you've flown the bra right the bra Brazilian no I would say have okay well did you ever hear that one I've always heard as known as the brick Illya for killing that's a little insensitive don't you think yeah oh yeah and then this one I can't read Thank You Captain Steve for putting in don't read this one let's see Colin says the cessna flotation which has the unenviable reputation for bird strikes on the trailing edge of the wings that's slow ow and of course the last finally for the BAE 146 the BAE stands for bring another engine you know it was interesting on it as a passenger and the when the flaps were either extending or retracting or maybe both there's a certain point where they get into their travel where it creates this it's like the box of candy that's empty and you blow into it that weird noise that like a howling noise or it's like it's hard to describe but I kind of looked around like that's because it's really not a sound I've ever heard on an airplane before but apparently they say that's kind of a fine yeah alright moving on Liz's warning let's get to number 13 definitely good 13 said please do 13 okay well 13 or 12 lists hold on maybe the I'm not sure if she wanted us to do 13 or 12 okay confirm Liz um she's she's quickly frantically typing it as we speak and we're still waiting there she combined that she combined the names the number in the name 13 okay okay well let's go right to number 13 then shall we and this is from Luke why a page a crew and listeners happy new year this is Luke from a very hot and humid kans Australia I found a very cool flight deck video I'd like to share I found an interesting for two reasons the approach it states that it's one of the most challenging and most spectacular at a place called pyro so the views are fantastic but also these guys are not official airline staff or pilots they do however have a very entertaining and successful travel vlog therefore I was scratching my head at the at the fact that they were allowed inside the flight deck researching online trying to find out what countries I allow this really didn't provide much information so I take it this particular part of the world the rules and regulations may not be as stringent as they are in most countries but I'd be very interesting I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on that and finally I thought I'd share a second video which takes us back in time to the 80s where believe it or not here in Australia we had three pilots operating a glass cockpit Boeing 767 answer'd Australia was the only airline to do so this was due to pressure from the flight attendants I sorry the flight engineers union and these aircraft were operated like this for most of their lives until the the late 90s when they were at great expense converted back to a standard – crew lay out prior to the Airlines collapse in 2001 so I hope you find that interesting again happy new year and thanks for a great show bye yeah I don't know what does anybody know about the rules regarding the cockpit access and certain areas of the world that are less stringent than what we're used to in our part yeah pretty sure it depends on the country is a threat level and if it's low enough and they can they consider terrorism to be a likely problem for them then I suspect cockpit visits will still be allowed which countries I don't know yeah whether pyro is like one of the one of the most demanding approach and landing airports out there I think if I'm not mistaken I think I've seen some videos on that we're and will include the YouTube videos that Luke included the video was from Bhutan but there was I didn't get to the point of like actually seeing the anyway the cockpit video but yeah you know the one the one we have photos in our show notes are from the 767 with the flight engineer position and it is quite odd to see 767 and I was thinking when he was explaining you know why they had the flight engineers position I'm thinking it has to be something to do with union contracts and the flight engineers and sure enough that's what it is so interesting now did you notice you notice the picture that most the overhead panel had been moved over to the side panel yeah that's crazy the overhead panel hardly has anything exactly really any switches see we used to have this other person managing all of this now we just make the two guys do it and you know what's really interesting about it is that I'm sure that they didn't take away any of the automated features of all these different systems so I would imagine being a flight engineer on the 767 for Ansett was a pretty easy job yep yeah when they were allowed to have pretty long hair – and a beard yeah this certainly works okay how is that possible honey that was an airline that was brought down by any in trouble so they're you know the end of that those pesky unions there yeah yeah exactly right all right and I think that perhaps the one that we were really supposed to do was a very similar name this is from Lucas the flying Kiwi sent us some audio feedback so let's take a listen we haven't heard from the flying Kiwi in some time and he has some exciting news for us apparently there's a some kind of a tropical typhoon or something going on when he was recording this he did apologize by the way for the for the wind in the in the recording he and wind yeah apparently recently hey I'm just out walking the dog after having a very sweaty time in the cockpit today getting might be a fire so I've checked that off having them remember how to use the ESX computer again anyway so the fact that I have a BF r also means I have a miracle ray so my medical contrary so I'd like to say a personal thank you to captain Nick and Jeff for all your kind words and encouragement I really really appreciated that it actually got me through some pretty awful times trying to get my medical bag but um I have a medical and I'm all more raring to go so I vlogged quite a few flight hours this week actually just trying to get my feet really for the B part I embarrassed myself so yeah congratulations on 400 oh yeah I've listened to some of the last 20 I think the last two or three I might put behind because I've been doing about a study I've been getting out the books for the Garmin 650 GP in on the TV and 650 and the ever dine Integra and why am i doing that you asked well I've sort of I've decided to double down on the aviation thing a bit so I'm me and two other guys had a rush of blood to the hidden we went out and bought a Cirrus sr22 g2 so I'm now the proud owner of Annisa it's really – which is great a beautiful plane as mk4 New Zealand Lima Delta Yankee war lady as we call it um and she's a great great plane I think that's a 2004 service which is got all the bells and whistles the oxygen and the fakie and all of the GPS is that you could good swing a stick a so yeah it's a great plane to fly have already lost three hours in it so I've got my rating but I just needed another two to satisfy the insurance company because we need five hours p IC which is great and of course that has to be done with a shitter sir a certified instructor pilot which is a bit of an ass because the nearest one is about I don't know two hours away so we are they have to fly to him or he has to fly to us so it's um it's challenging trying to get that five minutes but anyway I'm back in the air and in my own plane which is very scary although I have TK so if you've got a transponder you should be safe yeah so that's the news and I'm huffing and puffing because I've gone on a very long walk just trying to count down from my BFF so um yeah so it's been good I hope you guys have been well I've been catching up a little bit on on some of the stuff I've heard the the Firefly references by the way and Nick touch through the nose I'm a bit of a flight five flight there myself I actually have a picture of me and Nathan Fillion if you believe it I went to I think one of the Armageddon type comic comedy things here in New Zealand and he was one of the gifts and my my partner at the time decided to prank me and give me a photo with the guy so here's a photo of me and Nathan Fillion doing the thumbs up like Fonz which you'll never see because Nathan Fillion looks wonderful and I look like a big pink smudge so that's gonna remain buried but yeah very nice guy I'm very funny anyway there you go well I guess that's it from me if you become down here come on down um we've got a nice service waiting for you so ribs for Dana lots of IPA and and a couple of rides and a very very fast airplane which I've still got to get used to whoo yeah she is quite fast anyway he had a need for speed I think we need to Club together and buy Lucas a muff yeah you know he's probably recording with his phone he can't even hear any of that anyway so first off let's say Lucas brilliant so pleased to he got your medical Bay well done Lucas yeah that was all right quite a struggle and we're so happy to hear that and completing your VFR and then being part owner of this wonderful airplane stuff can probably yeah what's it like stuff it's Cirrus not your your muted and now stuff I said I'm a big fan of the serious it's a lovely airplane sorry because I was eating cookies well I don't wanna be we caught you crunching I know yeah okay yeah so is it is it quite a bit faster than most GA airplanes that can be um I mean with a tail wouldn't it seem 206 nuts no yeah no not not when you're in the pattern necessarily I mean not the chaps and trying what will it top out it top out it yeah how fast can you get it yeah it's been a while since I've actually floated so I'd have to go back and look but I was gonna say 180 but yeah probably close to 180 what's that is a mooning faster I've never flown perhaps Stephen is a movie faster right right did you need him alright and 500-foot caps is that the standard or is that like a enhancement it's just five hundred feet the standard that's standard okay yeah very cool so he followed up by saying I now have the rating for the Cirrus and 10 hours on type it's a beast i over hauled or out ran a Cessna Caravan the other day coming out of a parallel airport which got a few comments from controllers who were trying to fit me behind I was ten miles ahead loving the show and almost caught up I hope things are better for you Nate marry Chris so thank you everything is fine over here Lucas and always great to hear from you and that gets us to the point where we cannot do any more feedback for this show leaves us with a couple of ones that we weren't able to get for the next episode and so for those of you who are new to the show and you want to learn more about it and especially the best part of everything here which is our community please head over to the airline pilot guy website airline pilot guy comm and there so what do we have there we have information about the crew the community merchandise we have plane tails if you want to get even more information about Nick's wonderful plane tail plane tails please look at that you can also sign up or subscribe to that as a separate podcast even if you'd like if you want to you know skip all this stuff let's see what else Coffee Club or coffee fund etc lots of stuff over there on the website so please check it out and we're also on the social means we are my not muted good not muted you should head over to and search for us using the handle at a PG crew you can also head over to slash airline pilot guy we are all there on both of those social media platforms and we look forward to seeing you there as well and if you'd like to get even more involved please check out slack oh yeah slack goes hang on sing oh this is embarrassing hey hello hello yeah I'll get you something in a minute come over here and tell us about slack ok APG listeners please join us on our slack team slack is a communication coordination and sharing platform that works on your mobile laptop or browser on slack we share news and ideas we suggest episode in plane tales topics we plan events and meetups to get into the slack team please email me at slack at airline pilot guy comm that's SL ACK Sierra Lima alpha Charlie kilo at airline pilot guy calm or send me a tweet with your preferred email address to at Hallel and I'll send you an invitation that's ll spelled Hotel India 1 1 echo 1 and see you in slack okay thanks Helen out go back and wash your hands please that it's on near the sink somewhere I think he needs to wipe his bottom first we're not gonna go into that thank you okay yeah but you're right it's kind of obvious and let's see oh I should take off this picture here and get us back to our normal view oh you know there he is so we also want to a big shout out to our producer up and hey whatever eyes very much for all the hard work making us look and sound as professional and knowledgeable as possible which is pretty much a small miracle every time and also Thank You Josh for joining us hope it wasn't too strenuous a an exercise on your pardon no I appreciate it and enjoyed it okay excellent and until next time wishing all of you clear skies unlimited visibility and tailwind take care and God bless cheers y'all bye everybody bye you guys come on Josh you guys like Josh say goodbye Dana no he's over here hogging it we'll see you guys later yeah we blame Dana for that one yeah yeah yeah it's my fault my fault all right did we miss anything do we get everything it's here later oh yeah I know we can start over and try it from the beginning it was a good review kid ask uh recorder not started start over just kidding yeah I I do have mine going thankfully okay let me stop there we go excellent well if you eat and dinery you're gonna go out for me a little what yeah I think I'm gonna take just two G in this um Mexican food ooh that sounds good you have to take uber to get there though with the hotel not two and a half mile limit it's just where where's Jan thank you two and a half miles and then you can you know Gino J&L is that like downtown or something yeah it's it's a cemetery actually Oh central town yeah coronary you don't have to go very far but it's delicious actually one of the best rated restaurants and in CNN El Paso so what say that again Nick it's the dead center of town there you go yeah you know I had a good one for the the a two 20s being called what's that oh the cannabis oh yeah I've heard that yes yeah sure that's best we get them oh really well you know I heard that early on the cannabis very clever SMAT yeah yeah all right well thanks everyone in the live chat for hanging with us again during this holiday season hope you enjoyed the break from last week we didn't do a show last week so maybe that'll help some of those out there to catch up and planning on doing something next week we're not sure when yet we'll talk about it after we end our broadcast here and we'll make sure you look at the calendar that was in the other thing I was gonna say about the website the calendar it's an important part of our of our website so to see what's going on out there oh I should have mentioned that if you're in the baltimore-washington area on the sixth Monday the sixth having a little meet up with Hallel and dick and Craig at the BWI slash Annapolis that after noon early evening so I'm just my recon servant yeah I will tell dick I've almost finished his funny whiskey and it's very nice now okay until ticket really appreciate that letter he sent me with the the golf team okay golf tee is he with us right now in the chat room probably no no I haven't seen him so he was there earlier but okay disappear I will I will pass on those sentiments everyone if you remember and know you're all right what who are you people happy new years everyone on the on the in the chat room thanks for everything new year and I will see you again soon bye here

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